#128 – Dan Cohen On Gaza And Covid

Dan Cohen is an American journalist and filmmaker. He produced the documentary “Killing Gaza” in 2018 with Max Blumenthal.

Dan founded Uncaptured News, a multimedia investigative journalism organisation.

Dan is Jewish and his family were Lithuanian Jews. His family members in Lithuania were exterminated by the Nazis during the Holocaust, and the occupation of Lithuania following Operation Barbarossa.

This conversation explores the events of October 7th and the need for an unbiased investigation.

I hope you enjoy it!

Website Uncaptured Media
Twitter/X Dan Cohen

Ahmad (00:00.765)
Anyway, look, before we kick off this recording now, my lovely friend, Dan, um, you stood me up twice because you had legitimate reasons. I didn’t. I was late because I was scrolling on your Twitter feed and I was absolutely engrossed. So it’s kind of your fault, but I’m glad you messaged me saying, Hey buddy, are we up? But, um, I’ll tell you.

Dan Cohen (00:23.182)
I mean, a half hour, yeah, a half hour before we started, I was like, before we’re supposed to start, I was like, if I screw this up for the third time, I’m just gonna look like the biggest jerk in the world. So I was on time today. I’m proud of myself.

Ahmad (00:40.121)
Dude, I’m proud of you too. I’m slightly embarrassed. I was like, but it’s because you’ve got really good content. So for the listeners, I mean, the reason why I totally lost track of time was I was watching these bombshell videos on your, you know, uncaptured feed, um, on Twitter. You know, you can link it from your website and it’s like about people in the kibbutz being bombed by tanks and you know, missiles from Apache helicopters and children screaming.

Dan Cohen (00:42.286)

Dan Cohen (00:48.951)
Thank you.

Ahmad (01:09.397)
Like I was, I was gripping onto my sofa. Like I was like, what is going on here? You know, because there’s, there’s been so much noise and so much emotion and, you know, decapitated human babies and whatnot. And right from the outset, I know I kind of saw something wrong was happening here. I felt like I’m old enough to remember the set, you know, the Gulf war and the babies being torn at the incubator. I remember, you know, COVID and they want to get your emotions and they want you to

angry. I thought, holy macaroni, they’re just doing the same shit all over again. I don’t trust any of this shit. I haven’t trusted mainstream media for years. Why am I going to trust them now? And the danger is like, the problem is with going out publicly and saying that it makes you look like a cold, heartless, anti-Semitic, evil person. Um, I’m going to turn my phone off, but the problem is equally, if you fall for it, then you’re justifying.

you know, the government and the military industrial complex to go ahead and other a whole group of people and slaughter them in the name of righteous indignation and justice. And it’s kind of like scary. So can you just like, I mean, we’ve got so many things to talk about. Can you just talk about like what actually happened on the 7th of October, 7th of October, isn’t it? What happened?

To the best of your knowledge.

Dan Cohen (02:33.834)
Well, right, right. I mean, the first thing I think we should say is that there are a huge amount of questions about what actually happened on October 7th. And fundamentally, there needs to be an international investigation that is unbiased and really seeks to establish what happened that day. And ironically, you know,

people might not expect this, Hamas has actually called for that. Hamas, one of their kind of international affairs leaders named Bassem Naim has called for that, but the Israeli government opposes an investigation, an international investigation. So on one hand, the Israeli government wants to say, look at everything, all these horrible things that Hamas did, but it doesn’t want to like.

have a neutral, unbiased examination of the facts of what happened, which says a lot. And that’s because, well, what basically what we do know about what happened that day, Hamas launched a major offensive that was clearly very well planned. There was a huge amount of intelligence work that went into it, very strategic to basically overcome this highly

Ahmad (03:36.558)

Dan Cohen (04:00.406)
uh, this, this extremely technologically advanced barrier system around the Gaza strip and, um, get through it. And the idea, the main goal was to take as many Israelis captive into Gaza. Um, and then those Israelis could be used for negotiations to extract concessions from

the Israeli government as has been done in previous years. Most recently in 2006, the Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit was taken captive into Gaza. And after five years of negotiations, more than 1,000, like 1,027 Palestinians were released from Israeli prisons in exchange for this one soldier. So things went awry, you can say.

Um, there were definitely atrocities committed by Hamas fighters, um, in war, basically what, you know, it was war, um, and against civilians. Definitely. Um, there was a, uh, um, there were also apparently just civilians from Gaza who got out behind, uh, Hamas who came out and basically escaped.

And, you know, who knows what they did. They took some captives as well. But in the middle of that, the Israeli military totally failed. There’s no question that it totally failed to prevent this from happening, to defend its line. And it was basically a huge shock attack. And it killed several hundred Israeli soldiers and police personnel. So.

basically this entire Gaza division of the Israeli military was quickly wiped out. And yeah, so I mean, militarily, it was a huge success for Hamas. In ways that I don’t even, I don’t think that they actually realized they would be, they didn’t think they would be that successful, but they were. And in desperation to some degree, the Israelis,

Ahmad (05:59.947)
Oh wow.

Dan Cohen (06:24.93)
basically started shooting when military units arrived, whether by helicopter, whether by infantry units, they basically in various situations started just shooting at everything. So for example, in Kibbutz near Oz, which there was no military response there. So Kibbutz near Oz got hit really hard.

A lot of people were killed. A lot of people were taken captive into Gaza. As they were being taken captive, you know, you basically have like Israeli civilians, women and children and grandmothers and men being taken on tractors and motorcycles and this kind of thing, Israeli soldiers were shooting at them and actually killed Israeli civilians. Um, so there’s that aspect of it. Then in like the most.

Ahmad (06:57.806)

Dan Cohen (07:22.63)
infamous incident of basically friendly fire, if we can call it that, killing Israeli civilians is in Kibbutz Beiri. And there, there was basically a several hour wait before the Israeli military arrived. And so since you happen is you have one house where these Hamas fighters brought

a whole bunch of Israelis into one house and held them up. And they called, they actually called the Israeli police and said, we want to know we have safe passage to Gaza and you’re not going to attack us. Otherwise we’ll kill one of these hostages. And so they, they went outside and then went back in the house for whatever reason. That’s not exactly clear. And after it took several hours for the Israeli military to arrive and immediately

in basically a hostage negotiation where, of course, in any hostage negotiation, what you do is try to freeze everything. You know, you try to slow things down, negotiate this kind of thing. Instead, the Israeli army just opened fire and started shooting. And there was a firefight between the Israeli soldiers and these Hamas fighters inside the house with a whole bunch of captives, like 15 captives at that point. So that went on for a while.

the commander of that Hamas unit got a temporary ceasefire and went outside with this woman, Yasmin Porat, basically as a human shield. Went outside, negotiated his surrender. The Israelis made him strip totally naked as he’s carrying her. And then they said, okay, they blindfolded him and told him, you have to tell the other guys to come out.

tried to do that, the other fighters did not come out. So that went on for a while, this firefight. And then around sundown, a tank arrived. And when the tank arrived, the commander on the scene, the army commander, a guy named Barak Hiram, a brigadier general, told them, told this tank to open fire on the house with tank shells. And this woman, Yasmin Porat, who had gotten out, she said, wait, well, isn’t that gonna kill everyone?

Dan Cohen (09:51.702)
And the tanker, the soldier says like, no, we’re just going to take down the walls of the house. And lo and behold, the tank shells killed everyone. The Hamas fighters, which there were about 39 of them. And then the, I think, 14 people inside the house, except for one. One woman survived and she came out and eventually told her story. It took her about six weeks or so, or actually two months to finally decide to open up about

Ahmad (10:01.082)
Oh god.

Dan Cohen (10:20.026)
know, what she experienced and witnessed. So in that case…

Ahmad (10:22.617)
She must be traumatized. She must be absolutely traumatized.

Dan Cohen (10:27.122)
Absolutely. I mean, can’t, you know, unimaginable to, you know, to witness these kinds of things. See it. Her husband, you know, she’s elderly. She’s like 70 years old. Her husband or maybe older. Her husband died right next to her. You know, both of these women. I mean, I mean, it’s yeah, it’s just horrific. Absolutely. The trauma is severe. But there’s basically a cover up of this killing of Israeli civilians.

by Israeli soldiers and the Israeli military. There are also helicopters that open fire on that kibbutz and on Apache helicopters, of course, provided by the United States, that open fire on that kibbutz, as well as on cars fleeing from the area, which had civilians inside. So what we do know…

Ahmad (11:14.505)
Yeah, and because there’s also the rave. There’s also that rave, sorry for interrupting Dave, and I’ve seen some pictures of the cars and they’re torched. I mean, sorry Dan, so sorry mate. So basically, you know, like the cars are all torched by the, you know, and it’s not like, like what Gaza Hamas people would be torching these cars. It was like the scene of the highway out of Kuwait. Remember the Iraqi soldiers, all the cars were burnt out.

Dan Cohen (11:20.042)
Right. Sure. Dave is my dad.

Dan Cohen (11:27.906)
That’s right.

Dan Cohen (11:32.814)

Ahmad (11:43.933)
It looked like that. And it was like, what the hell went on here? Here, you know, um, it’s just this crazy indiscriminate fire.

Dan Cohen (11:45.65)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Dan Cohen (11:54.706)
Right, actually, I mean, that’s from Apache fire, Apache helicopter fire. And so, you know, at first, Israel distributed the images of these burned bodies and said, look what Hamas did, look at what they did to these poor people. And then it turned out that actually some of them were Hamas fighters, some of these burned bodies, and then some of them were killed by Israel itself. So, I mean, the fact is, Hamas did not have firepower.

or arms capable of doing the destruction that was done in these communities, in these kibbutzim. And so we know that Israel killed at least some of its own people on that day, and not in just, it wasn’t an isolated incident, like it just happened in one place, it happened all over the place.

There was a commander who was basically besieged inside his base as it was under attack and he called in airstrikes on the base. So this was all over the place. And what this, the biggest question really is, well, I mean, we already have a partial answer is what’s known as the Hannibal Directive was invoked that day. And the Hannibal Directive is a secretive, classified Israeli military protocol.

in which any soldier who is taken captive by enemy forces is killed. The Israeli military goes to all lengths to kill that soldier to prevent them from being taken captive, so then they can’t be used for negotiations. That’s clearly what happened on October 7th. There’s no doubt about it.

There’s another Israeli military figure who called it mass Hannibal. October 7th was mass Hannibal. So this is basically what Israel is trying to cover up and what the media is covering up and what they don’t want to talk about regarding October 7th.

Ahmad (14:04.517)
Wow. So can I just say, you know, when I first saw what was happening and apparently, you know, these Hamas soldiers have come in on paragliders and through the boats on the sea and they’ve broken the wall. I was like, I had a million questions. You know, my cap says question everything for a reason. And I was like, whoa, whoa. How the hell did this even happen? Like they’ve got sensors, they’re watching the skies, the sea. You can’t go boo.

over there without Israel knowing about it, the IDF, how is this even possible? Is this like, is this like a stitch up? Is this like some false flag operation and they’ve just let it happen? But now I’ve also heard not just from you, but it sounds like Gaza did something. The Hamas did something quite sophisticated. They were using drones, they were hacking in and you need to give them credit. Actually, you need to give them credit for what they did. Just, you know, despite not having much equipment and resources.

And actually what we also saw was gross incompetence on the side of Israel and failure on their aspect. Um, and then, you know, killing their own people, friendly fire, the delayed that on the scene was again, panic. They just didn’t know what was going on. So it’s not all conspiracy theory. It’s it could just literally be they were overwhelmed by a superior force, despite having very poor resources and full panic mode went in and then

you know, quickly they were like, how do we turn this really shit storm around? But why don’t we just blame Hamas on everything and you know, they’re barbaric and then just go full on, you know, crazy Armageddon style. I mean, I don’t know where the truth lies. Maybe there’s a bit of both. Maybe there’s not. I just don’t know. But what I do know is it’s not what we’ve been told by the mainstream narrative, which is Hamas.

are all barbaric terrorists who want to kill every Jew on the planet and, you know, decapitating babies, raping and burning everyone alive. And it was just an orgy fest on their behalf. I, it seems like it wasn’t that, you know, black and white. It was a bit more complicated than that. Um, and would that be an accurate summary?

Dan Cohen (16:17.042)
Yeah, yeah, I think that’s fair. I mean, we, you know, we fundamentally don’t know how it happened. I mean, there have been all kinds of reports about how Israeli, the Israeli military had intelligence in numerous ways that Hamas was planning some kind of attack, even up until I think, you know, the night before the attack. Um, and the, you know, top intelligence basically dismissed it.

But I mean, you know, a couple things. There is a general name, Itzhak Brick, an Israeli general. He was the comptroller for a decade. And he, and I wrote about him on my outlet, Uncaptured Media. He wrote a piece, or I’m sorry, he wrote a couple of annual reports in the previous years, a couple years before. And he had been warning in these reports and in the media

Israel was completely unprepared for any kind of real war. It’s an extremely corrupt military where there’s a culture of lying at every level in order to advance, in order to basically not do anything. It’s just brazen corruption at every level, all the way to the

political class at the top and the top of the military is completely political. So he had been saying, and also the Israeli military was downsizing in many ways because, you know, as everything is becoming smart and more reliant on technology, they figured they could cut back on manpower, reduce spending and costs, this kind of thing. So there’s that, there’s also the sort of, you know, ideological

laziness in a way, when you’re keeping these people under siege for 18 years, so long, you get kind of complacent. Where it’s like if you have your foot on someone’s neck for a short amount of time, okay, you’re in this intense mindset. But if you’re just standing there with your foot on his neck for years and years and years,

Dan Cohen (18:34.046)
Eventually, you’re going to be thinking about someone else, something else, and maybe you think, oh, I’m doing so great. You have some pride because I’m just, you know, this guy can’t do any. So I think there’s an aspect of that. And then, of course, so this culture of deception.

Ahmad (18:37.707)

Ahmad (18:49.811)
But that guy with the foot on the neck isn’t thinking of anything else.

Dan Cohen (18:55.43)
Exactly. The whole time he’s thinking, how am I going to get this guy’s, you know, how am I going to either get his foot off my neck or maybe reverse the situation or, you know, stab him in the leg. So it forces him to take, you know, his foot off my neck or whatever it is. So absolutely. Exactly. And with very limited resources, too. So, so at the same time that you have this total culture of lying and deception and laziness.

Ahmad (18:59.97)

Ahmad (19:09.865)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dan Cohen (19:25.234)
in the Israeli military and complacency, the opposite culture is developing in Gaza, where Hamas and Islamic Jihad and these various armed groups are developing very, very sophisticated intelligence and resistance techniques and refining them and weeding out collaborators who Israel is paying to give them information. They kept this whole operation completely secret.

from even the vast majority of like the Hamas leadership. So all of a sudden comes out and everyone is in total shock. Actually, I was, when I woke up, at like 6.30 in the morning here in DC, and I saw messages like it’s going down in Gaza and I called my friend there and he was in the middle of Gaza city, actually Mota Aziz, who’s now like a famous.

who’s extremely famous. He’s got like 20 million followers on Instagram or something because he’s documented these massacres every day, heroically. At that point, I’d been working with Motaz for a few years, we were friends. We worked on a documentary together before and I called him and he was like, “‘Yeah, man, I was just in the middle of Gaza city’ and all of a sudden, this Israeli military vehicle comes flying through that the Palestinians had hijacked, like an Israeli military

Ahmad (20:27.498)
Mm, mm.

Dan Cohen (20:48.866)
Jeep that is just, you know, these are ubiquitous more throughout the West Bank now because they don’t really go into Gaza until now, until this war started. But just tearing through the streets of Gaza and the back is open and there’s some Palestinian flashing the victory sign and then other trucks with people, captives in the back and just a total shocking scene. And so it was like,

Ahmad (21:16.397)

Dan Cohen (21:18.018)
I talked and then it was just, you know, every reality just flipped upside down. So ever since then. So, um, I mean, it’s just a really shocking moment, but I, you know, the question of was there some kind of conspiracy? A lot of people tend to think that way. There’s circumstantial evidence and there’s a lot of it. Um, there’s no smoking gun. And I’ve, you know, at this point I’ve learned to be very, very careful unless there is hard indisputable evidence.

Ahmad (21:44.626)

Dan Cohen (21:47.026)
Circumstantial evidence can be very misleading. And so I’m not gonna say there was no conspiracy. It could be that Israel said, okay, we’re gonna let this happen because it gives us a pretext to advance the preconceived agenda, which definitely exists, of ethnically cleansing Gaza and building settlements. And then it went, like Hamas accomplished a lot more than the Israelis thought. It could be that.

Ahmad (21:47.149)

Dan Cohen (22:16.994)
There could be, you know, it could be that both sides went further than, you know, either of them thought they would. So there’s so much that we fundamentally don’t know. But I do think it’s important to answer that question ultimately. At the same time, I think we have to keep it in context. And the way I see it is like, look, if you keep two, two and a half million people in a cage and you shoot them and you bomb them and you starve them.

and you deprive them of every bit of their humanity, of course they are going to resist and they’re gonna die trying. They’re either gonna succeed or die trying. And so the question of was there a conspiracy or did it happen organically is kind of like to me, the question of if you have an avalanche, did someone throw like a little cherry bomb?

Ahmad (22:46.041)

Ahmad (22:51.158)

Dan Cohen (23:13.67)
on the snow to get the whole thing moving or did some rock shift underneath and it happened organically. Either way it was gonna happen.

Ahmad (23:21.921)
Hmm. No, absolutely. I think it’s actually quite racist to expect Palestinians not to resist and fight. You tell me one group of people anywhere in the world who would be denied their rights and their freedoms like the Palestinians have, and who would just quietly just sit there and do nothing. You know, it goes against human nature. But you know, you said something really interesting. I really want to talk about that for a second. So, like my podcast is Doc Malik, Honest Health.

And the reason why I’ve done this is like your uncaptured media. You know, I don’t trust so much of what’s out there. And it might be that I trust people, but I don’t trust their judgment, or I just don’t trust the corporations and I just don’t trust their agendas. And so I thought, you know what, I’m going to create my own content because I know when I frack things up and I go, I made a boo and I admit it all the time, I’m happy to do that. And, you know, but I’m searching, I’m searching for the truth and trying to get through to it. And when it comes to health,

Dan, everything is actually related to health, whether it’s, you know, what we eat, how we exercise, or actually the political decisions that are made, or war. How many people have died and have been maimed and traumatized by this? And not just here, you know, I’ve got my sister who’s in Sweden. She’s an architect in Sweden. I’ve had phone calls where she’s crying down the phone, right? Because she’s been seeing kids being maimed and murdered on her Instagram feed. And she’s traumatized by this.

So the mental health damage isn’t just even located in Israel and Gaza, Palestine and Gaza, it’s just worldwide, this trauma. I always say, like the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is this sore on humanity. And actually the day that is resolved, there’s actually hope for the rest of humanity. But anyway, so I wanted a podcast to be covering all topics, politics, economics, health, because everything’s related to health.

And I thought, you know what, I’m going to have honest conversations with people about what’s going on in Gaza and Palestine. And I’ve had one pro Zionist person come on. Um, and I’ve had, I’ve approached other pro Zionists and they’ve declined them. They’ve said no. Okay. They didn’t want to come and talk, which I thought was interesting because some of them are quite vocal on Twitter, quite, you know, aggressive. Um, and here I was saying, look, come on my platform and talk about what you want. And they didn’t want to.

Ahmad (25:45.837)
So I have got an unnatural bias. I’ve got a few more people who’ve talked about the plight of the Palestinians than, you know, the pro-Zionist approach. But what you just said, you said there’s a preconceived agenda of ethnically cleansing Gaza. So that’s interesting because I had Ava Bartlett say that on my podcast. And I did a clip of that and I put it up as a short. And as you know, as a content creator, when you do shorts and trailers, you have something that’s interesting and juicy.

um, to put out there because you want to entice the audience to come back and listen to the whole podcast. But guess what? I had, um, I had a, what I can only think of as a Zionist surgeon, reach out to me privately on Instagram and question what I was doing. And another Zionist surgeon messaged me on my WhatsApp saying, did you have Ava Bartlett on your? And I said, of course I did. You know I did. Why are you asking me this? No comment, no response.

I said, why don’t you come on my podcast and you can talk about stuff. No comment, no reply. Next thing I know, um, the private hospital that I’m working out of has said, we’re suspending you immediately and investigating you because we’ve had a complaint internally about you posting this clip on Instagram. And we think it’s out of context. And she, she mentioned ethnically cleansing Gaza and, um, you know, it’s out of context and there’ll be, you know, repercussions and the public will not be.

able to trust you as a surgeon, as a doctor for posting this clip. Um, and I’ve run into trouble with, I’ve fallen foul of my profession. I’ve had problems because of my stance and COVID and the transgender and cause I think everything’s related. Everything’s related. Um, and this was like the nail on the coffin of my career because having been suspended by another hospital and now this hospital is financially ruined. I, so I, I’m now long, no longer practicing.

Simply putting someone on my podcast to talk about what’s going on in Palestine has ruined my career. But you’ve just said it as well again that there was a preconceived agenda to ethnically cleanse Gaza. Now mate this cost me my career. Can you just back that up a little bit and explain what you mean by that? Because it hits home when you say that.

Dan Cohen (28:07.51)
Well, for religious Zionists, the Gaza Strip, like all of the biblical land of Eretz Yisrael, is considered holy and given by God to the Jewish people. And I don’t mean, you know, like what they consider as a nation, not as like, you know, just as someone who’s like just practiced as a religion, but they see

Jews not as a religion but as a nation. So therefore nations have land and that is their God given land. So in 2005 when Israel evacuated settlements in the Gaza Strip, religious Zionists in particular were deeply, deeply opposed to that because they thought they were giving away

God, you know, this government was giving away land that belongs to the Jews. Um, similarly in the Oslo process in the 1990s, when prime minister, Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin signed the Oslo accords and the famous photo with Yasser Arafat, um, uh, shaking hands on the, on the white, you know, on the, on the White House lawn with Bill Clinton. That.

led to his assassination by the Israeli right wing, a religious Zionist with the backing of rabbis, of Israeli rabbis, because he was giving away Jewish land. Giving the Palestinians some amount of semi-sovereignty in the occupied West Bank, which though it was not really sovereignty at all, there was just basically, it was like a collaborator regime for Israel.

Ahmad (29:43.673)

Dan Cohen (30:00.458)
He was assassinated for that. So in 2004, when the settlements were withdrawn, Ariel Sharon, who was the prime minister at that time, he, there were all kinds of curses that, uh, like big Zionist rabbis put on him. Uh, but pulsa de nur is what they call it, where it was, you know, cursing him to death and he soon went into a coma actually. And they really thought that, that he, and he never emerged from that coma. He died. So they really thought that, you know, God cursed him for that, that they’re, they’re

their prayers, their curses worked. So ever since they withdrew from Gaza in 2005, they were forced to, the Israeli right wing has been pining to return to Gaza. But they know, they knew all along that it’s not just gonna be, now you have a rather sophisticated armed group, Hamas, controlling Gaza, ruling it.

And it’s not just going to be like you waltz in and build settlements like there were before. It’s like if you’re going to go in there and try to establish settlements, you’re going to have to basically expel either everyone or nearly everyone. Ideally, everyone is what they want. And this was, and it’s going to, and it will also cost Israeli blood. You know, it will cost, there will be casualties on the Israeli side as they expel the Palestinians from that land. There were demonstrations.

frequently I saw them when I lived in Israel. And in Palestine, I would see these demonstrations of the Israeli right wing for years, calling for a return to Gush Katif, specifically is the settlement they would talk about a lot. There were other ones, and they would, the colors they would use were like orange and blue. Those were the colors that they used in these demonstrations. This past March,

Ahmad (31:52.281)

Dan Cohen (31:57.662)
a member of Knesset, a member of Israel’s parliament named Uri Struck, she and a few others proposed legislation to make it legal to establish settlements again. It had been made illegal, so they wanted to repeal this legislation that made it illegal, so therefore it made it legal. And they did that. They succeeded in doing that, and it was a major thing.

They, and Orit Struck said in an interview that was published in the Times of Israel in English, I tweeted about it, that yes, we want to establish settlements in Gaza again, and it’s going to, there unfortunately will be a lot of casualties, but it’s worth it. We’re gonna, basically she’s saying we’re gonna sacrifice people, our people, for this land. And so this, I mean, there’s, in Israeli society, it’s like there’s no secret that the right wing

has been long coveted that land and wanted to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians and take it over. And ever since we’ve seen dozens, dozens of videos of Israeli soldiers saying, oh, we’ve returned to Gush Katif, we’ve returned to Gaza, this kind of thing. And saying that this is our land and we’re expelling the Palestinians. This is Avi Dichter, who’s not even religious.

He is a member of Knesset, he’s a high ranking minister, and he’s in Israel’s war cabinet. He’s with Netanyahu. These are the guys making the decisions about this war. He said, this is the Nakba of 2023, referring to the ethnic cleansing. He said that. I mean, so, expel, conquer, and settle. That’s the whole Zionist idea from the start. Not only in Gaza,

Ahmad (33:42.253)

Dan Cohen (33:55.478)
That’s the whole thing. Like that Zionism in a nutshell, expel, conquer, expel, settle. But that’s what they’re doing in Gaza now. So it’s not like a conspiracy theory. It’s like 100% true.

Ahmad (34:07.309)
I should, I should get you to write to the private hospital. It’s princess grace hospital, by the way, you can write to the chief executive and say, and say, you know, bullshit with your investigation. So I actually quit. I just said, screw your investigation. Like it’s bullshit. My podcast is out there. Everything is transparent. What’s your problem? Like you’ve got no business, you know, spending me and investigating me, dragging me through the mud for some quasi kangaroo court where they’re going to just,

Dan Cohen (34:12.866)
That’s insane.

Ahmad (34:35.701)
You know, just say I did something terrible anyway.

Ahmad (34:41.045)
I mean, I’ve heard this from a lot of people, not just you know, about Zionism and what the project is. You know, I used to be a Muslim. I’m not anymore. I believe in God. I just love humanity and I think we’re all God’s children. Um, and one of the reasons why I was interested in this occasion was because I, you know, was part of a freedom movement. I’m a bit of a dissident now. There’s very few doctors who have spoken out here in the UK about what’s happened with COVID, the lockdowns, the mandates.

experimental shots. I’ve seen the manipulation of the media and the propaganda and the corrupt politicians and the institutions that we used to trust who have completely failed us. I’ve made so many friends that I never ever thought I would make before across the world and I have very many Jewish friends, Christian, Muslim, agnostic, atheist, you name it. I love them all. What made me really sad on this occasion was

The same people, my friends and colleagues who were calling out the bullshit saying, don’t trust the media, they’re all liars, politicians are evil, blah, blah. This, on 7th of October, it blew that movement apart. And so many people fell for the propaganda. And the propaganda was othering. It was othering people saying, these Palestinians are animals, they’re barbarians, they’re barbaric.

And they are deserving of the punishment that’s going to come for them. Like we need to kill them all. Like, and, and that really shocked me, you know, seeing my fellow freedom fighters just suddenly blood lust, the blood lust, the raw anger and hatred, and they just wanted blood. They wanted people to die because you know what, they were under attack. But the thing is, I realized it’s not that simple. I’ve got a lot of Jewish friends.

and in America as well. I don’t want to name names, but they’re not Zionists. They keep telling me this is the most anti-Semitic movement because actually it harms good Jews and decent Jews and actually creates more problems for us. This is a colonial adventure and it’s not religious. It’s secular. If anything, it’s anti-God and it’s anti-human.

Ahmad (37:00.629)
What’s driving you to do all this work? I mean, you’ve made it your life mission. I mean, you’re Jewish. Do you not feel like these accusations that you’re anti-Semitic, you’re hating your own people by doing this? Like what drives you to do what you’re doing? I’m really interested.

Dan Cohen (37:20.106)
Well, I mean, yeah, first of all, you’re right on how the medical freedom movement was just blown apart. I mean, so many people who correctly oppose the demonization in the media of the unvaccinated suddenly were all on board when the demonization suddenly became against the Palestinians. And, you know, the Palestinians, frankly, largely rejected for what it’s worth. They rejected the Vax. So, you know, they are.

the unvaccinated in many ways. Um, you know, they’re one of, you know, kind of a lot of global South countries rejected it Palestinians among them. Um, and, you know, at the same time, the government that ran, that rolled out the most heinous pseudo medical experiment during the COVID era was suddenly embraced by these people. I mean, I’m, I don’t know if you can see my shirt.

This is my, this is my Fisrael shirt. You know, it’s like, you’re like one of the only people that actually, you know, that gets it. But it’s just like, a Pfizer executive said that Israel is like a big laboratory for us. It’s a sort of like human experiment for us. So, I mean, how I see Zionism and the Israeli government is it uses Palestinians for testing

and development of weapons, uses Gaza as a laboratory to develop weapons, and it uses the Israeli public as a laboratory to develop pharmaceutical products. So I oppose both of those because I love humanity. So people just, for whatever reason, cannot get that.

And I mean, honestly, I know pro-Palestinian people who are totally on board with all the COVID stuff. There’s a lot of them. And then, you know, people who rejected the COVID PsyOP who, you know, are on board with the whole Gaza War PsyOP. So people on in that sense, both sides don’t get it. Yeah.

Ahmad (39:36.447)
It’s funny.

Ahmad (39:40.361)
I used to think when you see one lie, you see them all realize it’s not that simple. You know, I actually witnessed it with the COVID narrative when people who questioned the whole COVID narrative and were calling it out suddenly fell for the UK and Russia war. I was like, what? How can you fall for this? Can’t you see how we’re being manipulated? It’s like this little thing being daggled in front of us. You know, today it’s COVID, tomorrow it’s Ukraine, then it’s Israel-Palestine. I mean, what’s it going to be tomorrow? And

You know, they keep doing these things and people just keep falling for it. And I’m like, come on folks. Can’t you see the playbook? Can’t you see what’s happening? Soon as you’re feeling emotional and riled up and angry, step back, step back. The moment you start hating another group of people, step back, step. No, not that simple, but unfortunately I think it’s just space, human nature for a lot of people to get very tribal. And it’s sad.

I keep saying to people the only tribe that I belong to is a human tribe. Like, you know, I, I’m, everything else is just cosmetic, brown, black, yellow, this, that, whatever religion, you know, man, as a surgeon, I’ve had the privilege of opening people up. I can tell you right now on the inside, everyone’s the same. You’re all like red and yellow and you know, adipose tissue. And when you open someone up inside, you can’t tell what they are because they’re all the same. And I think that’s what people need to understand.

start to sit outside the tribe. And I think that’s where you and I have a lot in common. And I’m not just bigging myself up cause I’m going to be bigging you up in a second, but you know, I’ve stood out of my tribe, you know, 280,000 doctors in the UK and I’ve stepped out of it and gone, this ain’t right. What we’re doing in medicine, we’re farmer whores. We just, we’re, you know, we become automatons. We don’t think anymore. We, there’s no critical thinking. We just get told what to prescribe and what drug to give out.

and what vaccine to give and what injection. Like there’s no critical thinking and we’re just slaves to the system and we’re chasing money and prestige and it’s all wrong. You know, I’m kind of ashamed of my profession. I’ll be honest with you, you know? And I think it needs to be fixed. And the funny thing is you’re also standing up your tribe and saying this isn’t what my tribe should be. This has gone wrong. And it’s kind of lonely and brave.

Dan Cohen (41:52.232)

Ahmad (42:04.041)
Um, and it takes, you get, you end up getting hate from all sides, but actually it’s because you love humanity. That’s what you’re doing, what you’re doing.

Dan Cohen (42:13.45)
Yeah, well, I mean, in terms of, you know, stepping out of the mainstream with the profession, I mean, that’s, you know, that’s been my whole experience in journalism. I was never, you know, part of the kind of mainstream or the establishment. I started in the alternative. And so I just see the mainstream journalists as I don’t see them as journalists. I see them as well-paid propagandists and they’re my I see them as my enemies, you know, really. So but, you know, in terms of being Jewish.

I mean, definitely it angers me. I fully reject the idea that Israel is a Jewish state or it’s acting on Jewish principles or, you know, what’s happening is because of Judaism or something like that when Israel’s Zionism is not a Jewish ideology or concept at all, it uses Judaism as a human shield.

So it actually frustrates me a lot when I see people, you know, who are like on Twitter, who insist on conflating Jews and Zionism, because really what that is, is Zionist propaganda. They are accepting the basic premise of Zionism, that, you know, Judaism equals Zionism, and that Israel is a Jewish state. So yeah, for me, I mean, you know, definitely one of the reasons I got into

this work on Palestine, I mean, this is what I’ve worked on the most in my decade in journalism is because, yeah, I mean, I was raised with this idea that Israel is like some homeland for Jews or some backup country, just in case things go bad here in the US and it’s some liberal democracy and a really bad part of the world and we have to support it. And then once I grew up, I realized that that’s a fairy tale.

and that it’s actually killing a lot of people. And so, you know, it just became, it was like a place that I knew I could get away with a lot because I’m like a white American Jewish guy named Dan Cohen. And so I just decided this is where I’m gonna go to like do journalism and learn how to be a journalist and this kind of thing. And so it’s the place that I have the most kind of experience and knowledge.

Dan Cohen (44:39.586)
And, uh, and, you know, I spent seven months, I spent basically three years in the country. And then during that period, during that time, I spent a total of about seven months inside the Gaza strip from 2014 to 2017. And for me, you know, I spent time all over the country, but Gaza always felt like the most real, genuine, uh, place.

because there were no illusions there. It’s like people are just living, people are living under siege, under bombs, they’re being shot. There’s no, you know, like in the West Bank, you have occupation, but you have this like collaborator regime and you have internationals that come and go and this kind of thing where there’s a, you know, there are some journalists that come and go from Gaza, but it was, it’s just such a severe reality that it was like, it was like looking.

It’s like the deepest look into the dark recesses of like humanity and Zionism. And it was just a very compelling place for me. And so in many ways, I, you know, I wish I could have spent more time there. I feel like I only spent seven months there, but. You know, most people will never ever get to go there. Um, yeah, go ahead.

Ahmad (45:55.777)
Can I ask you something? Were you not scared? Were you not like, oh my God, I’m this white American, you know, coming in Jewish. You know, these guys are gonna hate me. They’re gonna kidnap me. They’re gonna kill me. You know, cause what all the Jewish people, you know, Zionists have told me now is like, you know, they hate us. They wanna kill us. They wanna exterminate us. And the truth is I haven’t found that. I can tell you right now, I’m 48.

And I gave up Islam in my early thirties, but I can tell you right now, never, not one day of my life in any mosque and any conversation and any restaurant and anywhere with any company with other Muslims, have I any heard anyone talk about killing Jews and exterminating them and nothing, no hatred at all. All I ever heard was, Oh, you know, wish Palestine was free, wish Palestine wasn’t occupied. So

That’s my take on it. So I know the answer. I don’t think anyone wanted to go and kill you, but I’m just saying from your point of view, being subjected to all this kind of noise and propaganda that, you know, they just want to kill you. Weren’t you fearful? And what was the reality like? How were you treated in those seven months?

Dan Cohen (47:08.482)
I was never fearful because I was not going in, I didn’t have any of those preconceptions at that point that like, oh, they’re gonna kill me. I’d been around Palestinians enough to know that that’s just not what they’re about, what their gripe is. Their gripe is not with Jews or Judaism, Jews per se, it’s with occupation. And so if I had,

took, taken Israeli citizenship and joined the army. And if I were an invading soldier, then yes, they would have had a problem with me, Dan Cohen, the Jewish guy. But as a foreign journalist who goes in order to document reality, they don’t care that I’m Jewish. There were a couple of instances where I told people in Gaza that I’m Jewish and they were, you know,

Ahmad (47:54.857)

Dan Cohen (48:05.098)
Perfectly like one was an older and older like kind of a family man like kind of a patriarch of a family and he just He just talked about how he you know used to work in Israel and he had Jewish friends and all this stuff You know decades passed and then there were a couple of young guys Like two teenagers probably 15 years old who I mean this is in a neighborhood called Shijia Which that neighborhood basically has been wiped off the map now and in 2014 it was hit really hard to

And I sat with these guys and I told them I’m Jewish. And, you know, at first I asked them if they differentiate between Judaism and Zionism. And they said no. And I said, well, I’m Jewish. I want to tell you guys that I’m Jewish. Obviously, I’m not a Zionist. And they were like, oh, OK. So they so they understood. So it was like, oh, OK. So, you know, those guys. So so their issue is not with Jews. Fundamentally, it is with.

what people who happen to be Jews are doing, but it is not because they are Jewish. And what those people who are Jews happen to be doing is not an expression of their, they will say it’s an expression of their Judaism in the same way that ISIS claims to represent Islam or George Bush claim to represent Christianity when he said that God whispered in his ear and told him to invade Iraq and take out Saddam. It’s that kind of thing. So it’s like,

Ahmad (49:22.473)

Dan Cohen (49:33.866)
It’s a lie. It’s just it’s just a justification for crimes they’re committing. So now, I mean, I never had any issue and I never had any fear of that. And and in fact, you know, the only groups in Gaza that would harm me because I’m Jewish or would, you know, harm someone for reasons like that. Those are the Salafi groups that were very, very small.

Um, and we’re actually wiped out by Hamas went to war against those groups years and years ago and basically killed them, um, arrested and killed them. So I mean, you know, Palestinians don’t have problems with, uh, Jews for being Jews, they have a problem with occupation.

Ahmad (50:07.47)

Ahmad (50:16.885)
Yeah. And I, you know, I think people need to know that, you know, a lot of the groups that are, you know, quite militant Islam are actually funded and supported by the West. You know, you just need to look at Israel and Syria. You know, it’s this multi-ethnic, multi-cultural, multi-religious country. And then suddenly, you know, the West is backing these extremely fundamentalist Muslims.

And it’s like, what the hell? And they were out decapitating and murdering left, right, and center and bombing innocent civilians. And then they would get hospital treatment in Israel. And if anybody thinks I’m making this up, I’m not, you can look it up. You know, these, these fighters were brought in by Israel and recuperated and patched up and then sent back out again. And it’s like, I don’t know if it’s like the enemy of my enemy is my friend or something like that, but I mean, these were fundamentalist Muslim fanatics and the West has given them arms and weapons and

And it’s just like, what the heck? And the playbook isn’t unique. Same happened in Libya. You know, we, we seem to support the really bad people and then, and then say, oh, they’re bad people. And it’s like, well, then why are we giving them weapons and guns and supporting them? It doesn’t make sense. Now I’m going to say something that’s a bit weird because right now we’re seeing all these pictures and videos of people being bombed and killed and maimed in the thousands and Gaza. Don’t you think the people of Israel?

Like the Jewish people in Israel are just as much victims in a different way in the sense that they’re living in fear. They’re living constantly under this knowledge that they, you know, people want to exterminate them and wipe them out. They’re surrounded by people who want to kill them that, you know, they’re this little outpost that they should be scared and fearful and they should be hateful. They should be angry. What kind of existence is that?

I think that’s a horrible way to live. You know, being told that that’s not nice. And what does that create? Because I’ve seen, you know, these viral TikTok videos of Israelis, like girls and adults mocking the Palestinians, dressing up as them and pretending to be them and putting makeup on as if they’ve been in the rubble and dancing and mocking and, you know, or tying up Palestinians and doing this childhood kind of like song and it all goes viral.

Ahmad (52:43.973)
You’re destroying a society. You’re, you know, if you, if you make people feel this hatred and othering of other people, you ultimately kill the humanity within you. That’s my take on it. I think so. That’s why I think actually the actions of the Israeli government IDF is fundamentally true anti-Semitism because they’re killing their own country. What do you think of that?

Dan Cohen (53:11.746)
Yeah, definitely. I mean, from the time they’re basically born, Israelis are indoctrinated into the national ideology of Zionism and taught that they are basically part of an ancient people that in every generation, someone will attempt to exterminate them, whether it was the

Dan Cohen (53:42.042)
in the middle of the 20th century or now the Palestinians. And they’re like modern reincarnations of the Nazis. And that’s why they call them, they’re saying Hamas Nazis these days, even though it’s not these political ideologies have nothing in common or are not related. So, yeah, I mean, Israelis are victims of the system in many ways too, where-

You know, largely they don’t have a chance to escape the psychological prison. I don’t see them as victims in the same way that Palestinians are because they, you know, usually they, the vast majority of them survive. They can travel, you know, they’re physically free. Um, I mean, you know, they’re, they’re basically forced to, uh, join the military though they can, you know, or they can go to jail.

Ahmad (54:18.841)

Ahmad (54:28.633)

Dan Cohen (54:36.738)
for some months or they can do what they call gray refusal to not go to the military, which is say they have like psychological problems and so they can’t serve. But so they’re physically free, but they’re mentally imprisoned by Zionism. Whereas Palestinians are physically imprisoned, but can be kind of are more mentally free. So yeah, I mean, they’re definitely victims of Zionism.

in their own unique way where they’re brainwashed since they’re kids. And now, I look at like, I’m just about to publish this investigation on basically how Netanyahu is waging this war against the families of the Israeli captives in Gaza and lying to them and basically deceiving them and tricking them and trying to sabotage their efforts to

get the government to act on their behalf. And people in Israel, these families, and just basically the kind of, the liberal kind of part of the Israeli public is, you know, from my conversations with these people, they are demoralized. They want to leave the country. They don’t believe in it anymore. They’re like done. They don’t believe that there’s any kind of national concept in Israel anymore.

that there’s anything that binds their neighbor, there’s no bond between neighbors. It’s just a collection of individuals that do not look out for each other. And that’s largely in many ways what I saw, what I’ve seen. And the only thing that really holds them together, that keeps the country together is war. Whenever there’s an, is war against Palestinians usually. So whenever there’s,

a crisis in Israeli society, and there’s huge fighting. What’s been going on, the backdrop for the past few years is Netanyahu and his extreme right-wing coalition have been trying to basically neuter the Supreme Court. They wanna basically get rid of the Supreme Court and get rid of the judiciary and put all of the power in the…

Dan Cohen (57:03.222)
legislative branch. And so this whole, basically like a judicial coup is what they’ve called it. And that has created a very deep divide in Israeli society where even over this past summer, about 30% of Israelis were considering leaving the country. That’s how dire it’s gotten. And so now you have this war and that has like, it seems like it’s kind of temporarily papered over this huge divide.

Ahmad (57:30.843)

Dan Cohen (57:32.406)
But as soon as this war ends or there’s a ceasefire or whatever, it’s going to like rip back open. And so, you know, I mean, Israeli society is at its weakest point in its history. And the kind of like tech liberal elite class is like, they want out. They want to go to the US. They want to go to Europe. They’re done. It’s basically where things stand. So.

I mean, the psychological damage because not because they’re killing Palestinians, but because between the this whole judicial coup attempt and the fact that there are 130 Israeli captives, including civilians, in Gaza right now, and the Israeli government is doing everything possible to reject, to not bring them home.

is just destroying any faith these people have in their government, their country, their national idea.

Ahmad (58:41.913)
It’s insane when you hear this, it’s just insane. But it’s not really, you know, I don’t trust governments, Dan. You know, I think I think governments are all evil. They don’t care about us. They don’t serve us. They don’t represent us. And I think that’s what people need to understand. Too many people here in the West, in particular, have this idea that government is this benign, you know, parental figure that’s out there to look after them and take care of them. And people have become soft and weak and pathetic.

and just want to be taken care of by the state. When actually the state has no interest in our health, in our freedom, in our liberty, they don’t care about us. And they will happily, happily toss us aside so that individuals or corporations can benefit, politicians can benefit. And people need to get through that idea, whether it’s in Israel or America or Britain, it doesn’t matter, it’s the same, same everywhere. And…

I think it’s a lot for some people to fathom. They just go, oh no, the government wouldn’t do that. They wouldn’t do that. No, no, no. Yeah, they would actually. Yeah. If a politician can get a fat check and a cushy number and a beautiful summer house somewhere and a few people have to die here and there, they won’t give a damn. I mean, these are narcissistic psychopaths that we’re dealing with. They do not care about us.

And I think that’s what’s important. And I don’t think there’s really governments any different. Like you said, the way they rolled out the jab left, right, and center, the way it’s going to be a test bed for digital, you know, cities and 15 minute cities and ghettos and like, it’s not a paradise in the Middle East, the way they want to make it out. There’s democracy and freedom. Really? I mean, what they’ve been trying to get rid of Netanyahu and that guy just doesn’t want to let go, does he? And, you know, and all these, there’s like, there’s no corruption there. Of course there is just like you said. And I think that’s what.

All the Jewish people that are listening who are Zionists, I would just say if you really care about your faith and religion, park the politicians and the political side because the two don’t seem to be going along together. They have different agendas. Can I just say what is actually going on now in Gaza? Because for my mental health, I switched off, Dan. And I’d also like to ask you,

Ahmad (01:01:01.357)
How is it that we’re able to see so much of this trauma coming out of Gaza? Because I didn’t see anything coming out of Russia or Ukraine. I didn’t see the bombings in Donbass and the children dying in Donbass from the Ukrainian missiles. I didn’t see any of that. None of that. But every day on Instagram, I was seeing literally children’s brains blown apart, dads weeping as they’re holding their kids guts inside their abdomen. It, I, I’m not going to lie. I was

I curled up in the kitchen floor a couple of weeks ago and I was crying like a baby because I’ve got three young children myself. I was like, how could this be happening in the world today? And no one seems to give a damn. And Ursula did whatever and our politicians, the EU chief, the UK, everyone is like, no, we’re right behind Israel. They can go ahead and bomb and we’re going to send missiles and weapons. And this mass murder is taking place. Why are we being allowed to see it?

Israel could just switch off the internet, switch off the coverage, and we wouldn’t have a clue what’s going on. I wonder why are we being allowed to see all of this?

Dan Cohen (01:02:10.226)
Well, Israel has switched off the internet repeatedly and then turned it back on and, you know, small amounts. So, I mean, Israel has tried to cover it up in many ways and has actually killed, I think the last count I saw was 104 Palestinian journalists, or not only Palestinian, a couple of Lebanese journalists. So, since October 7th has killed, you know, has killed something like 100 journalists in Gaza.

So I think it’s doing what it can to prevent this information from getting out, but in the social media age, it simply can’t. It’s just impossible. And, you know, when someone like, you know, the New York Times is not going to talk about, you know, is not going to go and document the massacres on a daily basis. But when someone like Motazza Zayza or, you know, who was not well known,

before October 7th decides that he is committed to documenting the massacres around him on a daily basis, while people are showing interest. And so he has grown into, you know, he’s like GQ Middle East’s man of the year. You know, he’s like, my friend Motaz is suddenly like an international icon. And so, you know, I mean, what’s going on?

You know, for one thing, I want to point out that what we’re seeing on Instagram, on social media is really just a small fraction of the horrors of Gaza. Of course, you know, what happened when someone happens to capture on their, on their phone. So, you know, understand that when what we’re seeing is like peering into this whole, you know, reality that, uh, you know, we don’t see otherwise. Um,

And I mean, you know, I don’t know, we can, you know, we can look at like the numbers, statistics, you know, more than I think now it’s more than 25,000 documented killings of Palestinians since October 7th. You know, 50 some thousand injuries, you know, many of which require amputations without anesthesia, you know, and where they wouldn’t have to amputate

Dan Cohen (01:04:36.022)
uh, you know, medical, decent medical care available. They do that to prevent infections. Um, I mean, you know, I think now eight of the 36, I have to, I’d have to double check these numbers, but something like eight of the 36 hospitals in Gaza are operating at all. Um, I mean, people are shot in the street. There are massacres on a daily basis, multiple massacres, something like 160 children were being killed a day.

Uh, in Gaza, I mean, it’s just unimaginable carnage, um, that, you know, I saw horrible things when I was there that were like nothing I’ve ever seen or imagined and what’s happening now dwarfs that by, um, a long shot. So. I mean, the

You know, what you’re talking about when you collapse on your floor and cry, I think so many people are going through and just like how this is just seared into our, our consciousness. I mean, like I have, I have a little girl who’s almost four years old and that’s like, I put her, you know, I put her shoes on and then, you know, I’m holding her feet like that and I just, you know, and like this image comes to mind where I saw like, you know,

Ahmad (01:05:47.104)

Ahmad (01:05:53.257)

Dan Cohen (01:05:54.306)
the little girl like someone’s, oh, that’s all there is, or just the feet. Or like she fell asleep and I’m carrying her up to bed. And like, you know, I’m just imagining being one of those dads, you know, running down the street with my dead child or like last night going to sleep, you know, she was sleeping next to me. And I’m just imagining being, you know, one of these like hundreds of thousands of families who is like, well,

Ahmad (01:05:58.616)

Ahmad (01:06:05.802)

Dan Cohen (01:06:19.746)
I’m going to go to sleep and I might get bombed in the middle of the night and it’s going to kill my whole family. How do you go to sleep in that mindset? But eventually you have to sleep. So you just go to sleep thinking, well, this might be it, you know, and you like, it’s just beyond comprehension. And I just, I think about that as I fall asleep and then I eventually fall asleep and I wake up and here I am in, you know, Washington, DC, but it’s just

Ahmad (01:06:38.478)

Dan Cohen (01:06:49.255)
I don’t even have words for this level of horror.

Ahmad (01:06:50.009)

Ahmad (01:06:53.589)
you’re a good human being. I do the same thing. I saw this video of a guy who was holding his son and apparently the IDF said he could cross the road and this is in Gaza recently. When he started crossing the road they shot them both. And as he’s dying he’s like comforting or stroking his dying son. And I’ve got a four-year-old son. I won’t lie, I cried. I’m thinking that could have been me with my little boy. I love my little boy. I love my two girls.

You know, and I just think, um, if tomorrow one of my kids just, you know, was knocked down in a car accident or whatever, how would that destroy my life? My home life, my marriage, everything. But then imagine if I witnessed it, imagine if I witnessed someone kill my child and that sense of helplessness. And then imagine seeing your whole family being wiped out. What would that do to you? And.

This is happening, not just once, not just twice, and thousands of times. And this is what I mean by it destroys people. And I think what the people in the IDF don’t realize is this will come back to haunt them. If not today, tomorrow, they’ll realize the barbarity of what they did and the wrong. And you don’t, you don’t, you don’t turn, you don’t be, you’re not normal. I mean, after the second world war and the

Vietnam war, the reason why there was all these dads who were alcoholic and drug addicts and, you know, abusive and cause they were traumatized. They had PTSD. They saw the barbarity of what was going on in war. And it’s not healthy. It’s not healthy for Israel or Palestine. What’s going on right now? And I, I feel like the powers that be at the top, they love this. They’ve got their own agenda. I don’t know what the geopolitics are. You know, there’s

pipe gas off the coast of Gaza. They want a pipeline from Qatar through Saudi Arabia. And I don’t know what the big geopolitical game is. I just know there is always some shenanigans going on behind the scene and I just know I don’t trust them. Can I ask, what would you see as the solution? And I know that’s a big ask. You don’t know this, but I’ve got an idea of a solution, but I want to hear yours. What do you think is a way out for Israel and Palestine?

Dan Cohen (01:09:20.53)
I mean, the fundamental issue, right.

Ahmad (01:09:21.161)
Not just Gaza, the whole conflict. I mean the whole conflict.

Dan Cohen (01:09:25.862)
Right. Well, Israel has basically been in a state of war since it was created. And that war has been all about maintaining either creating or maintaining its design this project, which is about fundamentally about making sure that more

Jews live inside Israeli controlled borders than non-Jews. And it happens to be that this project is in Palestine where there are many Palestinians living and many more since the state was created. So rather than a government system that affords one group based on ethnicity or

rights at the expense of the other, I believe everyone should have the same rights. So that means one country, which it currently is, it’s all controlled by Israel. Israel controls all of the borders of Palestinian territory or Israel or historic Palestine, whatever you want to call it, Israel controls the whole thing. Palestinians have various amounts of kind of

semi sovereignty in the West bank, though they don’t, it’s not actual sovereignty. It’s, you know, just like I said, a puppet regime for Israel. That’s what the Palestinian authority is. That’s funded by Israel and Europe. And then Gaza, you have Hamas, which is a resistance group, but is now not governing. It is merely resisting. And otherwise it’s all Israel. So instead of this chauvinist nationalist idea that

Ahmad (01:11:04.554)

Dan Cohen (01:11:21.486)
affords one group rights over the others, just give everyone the same rights. To me, it’s actually very, very simple. And those who don’t want to live in equality and peace in which all religions, all peoples are able to worship and live free, they can go somewhere else. They don’t, you know, too bad for them. So that’s what I think is just democracy. I think it’s simple. Yeah, that’s it.

Ahmad (01:11:50.925)
So it’s, wow, you. So that my friend is very funny because my solution was actually something that I thought was very simple too. And everybody keeps saying to me, oh no, it’s very complicated, it’s very complicated. No, it’s not. The wheel might seem complicated, but it’s not. The wheel is quite simple. Sometimes the best solutions are the most simple. So my concept was just what you’ve just said.

I said, you know, there should be a united Republic of Israel and Palestine, one country, multiple peoples, multiple religions, all equal under the law, have proper law, proper democracy and individual rights and freedoms and no special treatment for any group. And actually it shouldn’t be a theocracy. I’m sorry, because I’m not religious. I don’t believe in theocracies of any sort or any kind.

You should be free to practice religion and I love religions and I respect them for what they do and their history, but I don’t believe in the theocracies and I don’t believe in special states for special people. Doesn’t matter whether it’s Iran or Israel. So I think we’re pretty much the same then, isn’t it? Don’t see any difference.

Dan Cohen (01:13:01.15)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. A bi-national state. At this point, there are two nationalities living in the country. There are Palestinians and there are Israelis and both need equal representation and rights to the country. And there are, you know, millions and millions of Palestinian refugees who continue to be refugees, who are stateless, um, and have their right to return and to live in their country of origin. And so I don’t believe. Mm hmm.

Ahmad (01:13:29.082)
Some Zionists will say, oh, but you know what? If you do that, if you let the Palestinians have equal rights and you let them all back in, there’ll be no homeland for the Jews and we’ll be homeless. You’ll destroy our Jewish state. And that is the worst thing ever. How dare you say that? I mean, what would you say to that?

Dan Cohen (01:13:49.374)
Well, the whole idea that there is a Jewish homeland is false. There is no such thing as a Jewish homeland. Number one, you know, I’m Jewish. I live in the United States. That’s my homeland. Not because I’m Jewish, but because I’m American. Just like, you know, a Jew born in, I don’t know, any other country in Canada or Great Britain or, I don’t know, you know, China or wherever.

is that is their nationality. So there’s a conflation that Zionists intentionally make between nationality and religion, and it’s quite dangerous and it’s disingenuous. And it accepts the idea that if Jews only belong to Israel, then that accepts the idea that Jews can’t belong anywhere else. That’s the whole thing. Zionism is actually anti-Semitic.

Ahmad (01:14:30.538)

Ahmad (01:14:43.434)

Dan Cohen (01:14:45.482)
Zionism is fundamentally anti-Semitic because it believes that, okay, Jews need to go to Israel. That’s their homeland. Even if they’re not born there, they don’t have any actual connection other than some religion that their ancestors, generations back may or may not have adopted. And in the case of European Jews, like would I come from, definitely adopted Judaism that makes my homeland a country in…

the Middle East, I don’t have any connection to you. That’s totally absurd. I’m American. I was born here. I culturally am American. This is, I have a lot in common with my neighbors who are of different religions. I feel connected to them. I feel connected to my country. I’m an internationalist. I love to travel. I love to go to other countries and see their culture and learn from them and share. But fundamentally I am American.

Ahmad (01:15:19.385)

Dan Cohen (01:15:44.638)
And so this whole idea that, oh, well, actually, because I’m a Jew, I’m not really American. It plays on this trope about Jews and dual loyalty, that they’re actually loyal to a foreign country, which is Israel. And I totally reject that as anyone who is concerned about anti-Semitism should, but Zionists need anti-Semitism to justify the project. That, oh, we’re never going to be safe here. So we actually, you know.

Ahmad (01:16:01.955)

Dan Cohen (01:16:14.398)
We have to go to that other country and occupy those people and take their homeland away, whereas Palestinians, whether Muslim, Christian, there were Palestinian Jews, atheists, whatever, you know, they are part of a nationality, um, of the Palestinian nationality. And, you know, which has a lot in common with their neighbors, with the Lebanese, with Syrians, with Jordanians, with Egyptians, but nonetheless, do at this

distinct national identity.

Ahmad (01:16:48.381)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I think like a lot of people don’t understand that just because people speak Arabic doesn’t mean that they’re all the same peoples. You know, they were conquered and then they adopted the Arabic, you know, language and religion. Actually, you just need to travel around the Middle East and you’ll see the people are very different. Food is slightly different, the culture, the music, even the dialects, the way they look. It’s kind of racist to just say they’re all the same people. It’s like, ain’t that simple? Just like…

Dan Cohen (01:17:14.58)

Ahmad (01:17:16.277)
Like all people in the Indian subcontinent are all the same. There’s like so many religions and languages and ethnicities. It’s, it’s very, very varied. Um, so what, let’s move on from Israel and Palestine. What about, what about COVID and the COVID years? What made you see through the BS? You know, the Faisal T-shirt you’ve got on, you know, how did you know, all right, this stinks. Why didn’t you fall for it? Like so many others.

Dan Cohen (01:17:45.43)
Well, I did fall for it at first. I fell for it pretty hard at first, not to the point where I was like aggressive or I was like a jerk or anything like, you know, some of the real COVID diehards became. But like, you know, I was masking before anyone else. I was I was like, I remember going to Trader Joe’s here in Capitol Hill and I was the only and I wore a mask and I was the only one. And I felt like, you know, in like Terminator, when like

Sarah Connors going around and is like, no, you don’t understand what’s going to happen. And that, you know, it was like that kind of thing. And so I, you know, was really like believing it. There’s this whole, because I was paying attention to China. And like, at that point, I’d spent a couple of years debunking all of these, like, PSYOPs against China. The US was, you know, behind all these, like, Hong Kong riots and the fake

Ahmad (01:18:18.073)

Ahmad (01:18:42.795)

Dan Cohen (01:18:45.822)
I was like, man, China is like, look what they’re doing over there. They’re taking this really seriously. They’re locking down, they’re masking, they’re doing all this stuff. And look, there’s not many people dying. They’re like, they’re fighting off this virus. We got to do the same thing. And then like all of a sudden the regime kicks in here. And I was like, okay. And my daughter had just been born. She was born February 20, at the end of February, 2020. So I was kind of in the house anyway, all the time, not really like.

Ahmad (01:19:11.051)

Dan Cohen (01:19:14.506)
I was kind of already on lockdown. So I wasn’t like seeing the effects on people so much. But then, you know, so I kind of just like, wasn’t very skeptical for a while. And after, I don’t know, maybe, it took me probably a year, honestly. I’m embarrassed to admit. And you can go back and find embarrassing tweets of mine. I know, I know, I totally am embarrassed by it. No, no, it’s true. And I’m trying to…

Ahmad (01:19:21.249)

Ahmad (01:19:38.239)
That’s a long time.

Dan Cohen (01:19:44.542)
Like my daughter is part of the reason I’m trying to think why exactly it took me so long. I don’t know. I just, you know, I didn’t, I don’t know. I just wasn’t skeptical of it for whatever reason. And again, I wasn’t like, you know, I wasn’t like crazy when I started seeing them talk about like forced injections and like, you know, pressuring people to get them and that kind of thing. That’s kind of what tipped me off that like, that’s why I was like, this is wrong.

take away their jobs or this kind of thing. Um, cause, cause I knew that it’s like, it’s not going to stop, you know, the supposed spread and this is basically a treatment that, you know, people should be able to decide for themselves. That’s how I understood it. And so if you’re like, you know, pressuring people, taking away their jobs, actually there was an article I read in the Washington Post, I remember calling for, um, like private security companies.

Ahmad (01:20:14.499)

Dan Cohen (01:20:44.546)
forcibly inject people. I was like, this is crazy. And so, yeah, yeah. So I thought that, I mean, I was like, this is insane. This is going way too far. But the thing that really like tipped me off in terms of the Psyop, where I really started to be like, okay, wait a minute, we’ve been lied to. That’s the key thing is like, not when you think like, oh, they’re going too far, or this is kind of unethical or whatever, but they lied to us. That’s the key thing is when I started to,

Ahmad (01:20:47.577)

Ahmad (01:21:07.763)

Dan Cohen (01:21:14.426)
look at death certificates and how the whole protocol of writing a death certificate or counting deaths, I should say, had been flipped on its head. And so I saw these guidelines that came out from the CDC that had come out in March and April of 2020 early on basically saying, we want you to

Ahmad (01:21:27.48)

Dan Cohen (01:21:43.178)
And this is, you know, for medical professionals saying, we want you to find COVID deaths more often than not and how you’re gonna do it is, it should be the underlying cause of death. And so I was like, wait a minute, you know, so I could get into this whole thing, but I realized that that’s phony. It was just a totally phony way to count the death. And so I’m like, okay, they’re inflating the number of deaths.

take the normal way of counting, of writing a death certificate, I realized they inflated it by like, by their own standards, just using the old way versus the new way they invented by like 90%. And I was like, wait a minute, 90%? And then I started seeing the statistics of like, how many people had, I don’t know, what did they call it?

you know, heart disease or this or that, and the next thing, and that was who was being killed. So that was like the next level of it. And then, you know, it just kind of all fell apart little by little until eventually I got to look at the work of two people, Denis Rancoeur, the Canadian scientist, and from him his studies of all-cause mortality, I understood that there actually was no pandemic.

Ahmad (01:22:40.481)

Dan Cohen (01:23:08.854)
The whole thing was a Psyop. And then, you know, so it was, what Denis says is, okay, there was not a particularly deadly virus. So that means maybe there was some virus going around, maybe not, we don’t know, but it wasn’t killing anyone more than, it was not, you know, killing more people than were gonna die anyway. So there, it wasn’t an abnormal time in that sense. So then I started, I mean, so that, you know, really,

you know, open things up for me. And then the question for me of like this whole lab leak thing, it kind of sounded science fiction. Like it’s like a sci-fi movie, like some virus leaks from a lab and goes around the world and every, you know, it’s like it’s too science fiction for me. And I was skeptical about it. Right. Right, exactly. And so it felt like, I don’t know, just kind of a little bit hokey in a way of a narrative.

Ahmad (01:23:48.973)

Ahmad (01:23:58.353)
Directed by Steven Spielberg.

Dan Cohen (01:24:07.842)
but everyone’s really into the lab leak idea. And so I was like privately skeptical about it, but I didn’t know like, well, where to kind of look at this. And I started looking at the work of Jay Cooey, who I know you’ve had on the show and you’re tight with. And Jay Cooey’s work has really kind of been the thing that’s taken it to the next level of understanding how the Psi-Op has worked.

Ahmad (01:24:11.929)

Dan Cohen (01:24:34.87)
This whole idea of a lab leak is indeed science fiction, that RNA viruses cannot cause a pandemic. And yeah, that the whole thing is a farce. And so we’ve been subjected to, I mean, I think just the most multifaceted, extensive psychological operation or series of psychological operations, I think in human history, I mean, it’s unprecedented, I think. So.

Ahmad (01:25:05.253)
It’s mental. Dude, I like your story. It was a really, really good rundown. I’ve got Denise Rancourt coming on in February on my show. I’m really looking forward to it. He is amazing. And JJ Cooley is hilarious. So I first got to know him and spoke to him when he had this raspy throat. And now that he’s coughed up his polyp, I don’t know if he told you about that, he coughed up his polyp. And now when I hear him.

Dan Cohen (01:25:05.334)
That’s… Yeah.

Dan Cohen (01:25:16.506)
Oh excellent, he’s amazing. Excellent.

Dan Cohen (01:25:26.155)

Dan Cohen (01:25:30.494)
Yes. Yeah, I think I talked to him like the day after.

Ahmad (01:25:35.245)
I’m like, who is this guy? Are you the same guy? He’s like, yeah, this is me. This is how my voice normally sounds. I’ve coughed up my polyp. I’ve never heard of anyone coughing up a polyp. It’s hilarious, but he is fantastic. But listen, I don’t mean to make you feel bad. I fell for it for three weeks. And I was like, yeah, I was wearing an FP whatever face mask for about a week. Everybody’s looking at me like I was the weirdo when nothing was happening. And then we got locked down. And then I was like, this is bullshit.

Dan Cohen (01:25:36.075)

Dan Cohen (01:25:41.355)

Ahmad (01:26:03.521)
And then when everyone was masking up, I was refusing. So I was just, I was constantly the odd one out. And, but yeah, I’ve spoken to enough very intelligent people now who’ve proven that there was no pandemic. There was no deadly virus. There was nothing more deadly than normal. Actually, you know, in 2020, the all-cause mortality is no greater than before. It’s actually in 21, 22, 23, that it’s gone up. And the question is like, now where are those, you know, those big graphs, those red charts?

those scary figures, why is no one talking about it now? Which is hilarious. I don’t really care about whether there’s a lab leak or not because frankly, I don’t really believe in these deadly pandemics. Because if it’s deadly, it’ll burn out, like everyone dies, or it’s gonna spread very quickly, in which case it’s not deadly. So this whole idea of fueling the pandemic industry, I’m not really into it. I think there’s also increasing evidence that there was a vaccine out already.

Dan Cohen (01:26:36.817)

Ahmad (01:27:01.749)
and they wanted to use the vaccine. So the vaccine came first and then the pandemic, you know, just speaking to people in the pharmaceutical business, they just think, how’d you get all those vials out, the drugs out, it’s just, they want this mRNA platform out for everything now. You just need to go on the company websites and you’ll see the pipeline of development of drugs. And like, they won’t be pushing food with these unless they were confident that they’re gonna be using them. So…

I don’t know. COVID for me was a big wake up call. It was quite worrying because up until that point, I was kind of awake. Then that the West was not as nice and as the good guys as I suspected they were, like when I was in the 80s and a little kid. Now actually, I was like, we are the bad guys, but we’re only being bad to other people, other pesky foreigners. What COVID made me realize was that they were waging war on their own people. There was no national loyalty. There was just this globalist elite.

Dan Cohen (01:27:49.854)

Dan Cohen (01:27:56.844)

Ahmad (01:27:58.329)
predator class who wants to enrich and empower themselves at the expense of fracking everyone. And they don’t give a shit who you are, where you are, what color you are. You’re just a number. You’re just a way of making money. And if, and they can dispose of you when and if they want. And that was my wake up call. Now that’s why I’m totally against all governments and these institutions and banks and.

whatnot. And you know, the death certificate I’ve had John Bidwana on talking about the Massachusetts Dayton. Yeah, man, if you died, like falling five feet, you know, stories off a building. Yeah, you’re still a covert death. It was madness. Everything was a covert death. It’s just insane. You know?

Dan Cohen (01:28:42.706)
Yeah, yeah, I’ve, I, uh, like I found so many crazy stories of, of COVID deaths. Um, there was like one guy who, I mean, the craziest one to me actually was there was this guy, I think in the Bronx in New York city, who he was a, an obese guy and he was diabetic and he got a positive COVID test, even though he wasn’t symptomatic. And he went home.

and called the police that night and told him that there was someone in the street, uh, you know, like with a gun threatening people and the police come, you know, sirens roaring and he goes outside with like a civil war era pistol and like some like old knife and he goes to confront the police and they shoot him. So he tried to do suicide by cop and there’s, and there’s a video of him laying on the ground begging him.

Ahmad (01:29:35.072)
Oh, shit.

Dan Cohen (01:29:39.766)
begging to be killed, executed by the police. And he went into the hospital and then he died some days later. And he was so heavily propagandized that he committed, basically committed suicide by cop. Um, and so it’s, and then so it’s like, he should be considered a, you know, death by like propaganda is essentially that was his under, essentially his underlying cause of death was propaganda. Um,

And he was actually counted as a COVID death. So it was like just used to reinforce the propaganda. But I mean, I’ve, you know, I found cases of like a two or three year old boy in South Texas who drown in his family’s pool. They took him to the hospital, swabbed him. He was listed as a COVID death by the CDC. Another guy who was working on a roof in Florida, who was struck by lightning. Um, and.

You know, there’s this horrible description of what happened to him. He fell off the roof and was, you know, writhing around and he was counted as a COVID death. I mean, there, and you know, these are just the extreme examples. It’s not like all of them were that, you know, these are just like, those are the tip of the iceberg. A lot of them were just, of course, you know, you died from cancer or this, you know, the, the typical underlying causes of death, the big killers, but you know, they swabbed you and it was positive. So.

Ahmad (01:31:04.825)
Thanks for watching!

Dan Cohen (01:31:05.898)
You’re a COVID death. So, you know, oh my God. So, I mean, that was like, for me, that was just really eye-opening and everything else has kind of come after that. But yeah, I mean, I agree. You know, I think it’s like the same way that, you know, we’re all just fodder for their wars or their schemes or whatever, the ruling classes schemes, is the same way that like these captives, these Israeli captives in Gaza,

The government doesn’t care about them. They’re doing everything possible to not, you know, to not rescue them and bring them home or negotiate to bring them home because that would interrupt the bigger goal, which is waging war and killing. So, you know, they’re actually an obstacle for Israel. So like, it’s the same way that ultimately our governments do not care about us.

Ahmad (01:31:44.837)

Dan Cohen (01:32:04.33)
but they’ll give us lip service and pretend that we’re like actually some country and we’re all together and we’re all in this and we all have to lock down and stay home and we all have to just buckle up and not worry about those captives in Gaza because we all have to sacrifice. It’s the same thing. It’s like the exact same logic. I hadn’t really thought about that before until you started to say that. So no, it’s totally true.

Ahmad (01:32:26.096)

Ahmad (01:32:30.345)
Yes. It’s a good point. It’s a very good point. I mean, talking about then in America now, I mean, I don’t know Biden. Oh, wait, what? I mean, let’s just not even talk about him. I mean, like, you know, people have a lot of hope in Trump. You know, I had Paul Alexander on and he was talking about Trump and I think he’s missing the trick there. I don’t really have much faith in Trump. I don’t know. And the scientists and even RFK Jr. I mean,

What’s your take on it? Are there any politicians you can trust out there that are on the playing field right now that are good guys?

Dan Cohen (01:33:08.134)
Yeah, I mean, you know, Trump, the, you know, the, the father of the vaccine, I mean, even though he’s not really the father of the vaccine, he was, you know, he’s not, it precedes him. Right. But I mean, you know, he did technically he approved operation warp speed. So it happened under his watch. But of course, you know, he’s just, he didn’t know what he’s, he’s really doing. And I think that’s Paul Alexander’s argument is that like, well, you know, he got, he got bamboozled. But, you know, I don’t think it’s.

Ahmad (01:33:16.706)
Right? The warp speed.

Ahmad (01:33:35.671)

Dan Cohen (01:33:36.482)
you know, we can just say like, oh, well, so, you know, he’ll figure it out. He’s never come clean about it. He’s never, he’s still brags, you know, about how he, uh, you know, he’s. Exactly. So, no, I don’t trust Trump at all. Um, let alone, you know, his war policies, um, uh, you know, which, which definitely were like more kind of unpredictable than the establishment. You know, he, uh, so I’m not saying like.

Ahmad (01:33:44.253)
Right? He’s still bragging about it.

Dan Cohen (01:34:06.19)
Trump is worse than Biden or whatever. And overall, I would say Biden has been a worse president than Trump. I think that’s fair to say, but you know, that’s like, also it’s, you can’t exactly compare them apples to apples because they’re at different times. And so you’re looking at different phases of the system that they both enable. So to me, it’s kind of, it doesn’t, you know, I’m not gonna try to parse which one if I prefer, you know, I don’t prefer either of them.

Um, with RFK, yeah, I mean, early on I was kind of like, okay, this guy’s, you know, talking about bucking the establishment and ending the Ukraine war and us involvement there. And then all of a sudden, and I was like, wow, and this guy has like the cred he has, you know, he comes, he’s Kennedy. So he has like the appeal to Democrats and Republicans and independence. And, you know, he gets like the pharma thing and, um,

Ahmad (01:34:48.145)
Yeah, me too.

Dan Cohen (01:35:06.394)
And he’s criticized in the media and he doesn’t really like, he did weaken his stance after the Defeat the Mandates rally. When he said he had that great quote that like, no regime in history has had the ability to be as totalitarian as now, something like that. And he talked about how Anne

Dan Cohen (01:35:36.478)
the Holocaust, people could flee or something like that. He’s like, now you won’t be able to flee. And he got attacked for like being an anti-Semite or something, which was totally ridiculous. I thought what he said was actually really important. He talked about turnkey totalitarianism. And so then, you know, months later, he’s palling around with Shmuley Botiyach, who’s one of the biggest hucksters, pro-Israel hucksters out there.

Ahmad (01:35:47.765)

Dan Cohen (01:36:05.154)
who was on the payroll of Sheldon Adelson, Sheldon Adelson being the CIA’s conduit for spying on Julian Assange in the Ecuadorian embassy. And so not only like is RFK taking these like ridiculous pro-Israel positions while saying he’s gonna be an anti-war candidate and go against the neocons while he’s buddying up, doing the most, you know, humiliating himself with

the most neocon figures on the planet, but then doing these appearances and being close with people who are close to the CIA when he’s saying he’s also gonna free Assange. And so I’m like, this is phony. And so my whole thing was like, look, the only reason, my opinion is the only reason to run for president,

is to show what a farce the whole system is. They’re not gonna let you in. And that was like, but if RFK shows what a farce this thing is, that will be a positive. That will be an accomplishment. But now it’s like he is clearly playing politics. He’s compromised in whatever way by the Israel lobby. I don’t wanna speculate on how, who knows. He does have all kinds of skeletons in the closet.

Ahmad (01:37:24.578)

Dan Cohen (01:37:31.75)
You know, from his past, a lot of shady things. Um, and. You know, he’s like, it looks like he’s actually trying to win the presidency. And so my thing is like, if he, what I think is if he actually, like, I could imagine a scenario in which obviously everyone hates Biden. They don’t want Trump. What if they let him in?

Dan Cohen (01:38:01.334)
candidate, you know, the Ukraine war is already over. It’s basically over. Now it’s just, you know, hammering out the final details. So let him, you know, pretend to be the anti-war guy and let him in and be controlled. I wonder if that’s kind of like what, you know, one of the options are. So if he actually gets in, then like it’s a, it shows that he’s just a tool of the system. I don’t believe in any of these people. I just wish someone who had principles would

you know, just show how incredibly corrupt and farcical the whole thing is and just, you know, pull, pull the curtain back on the whole system. And that’s what he should do. But

Ahmad (01:38:39.597)
Hmm. Absolutely. Because, you know, I actually want true patriots. You know, there’s nothing wrong in being a nationalist. If you care about your country and your people, and you want to put that as a priority, that’s good. Why is that a bad thing? Like you want to put that ahead of the corporations? Great. Damn right. But the problem is, like, just look at the states.

We don’t have any politicians who care about Americans. We don’t care about the infrastructure. California is crumbling. People are shitting on the sidewalk in San Francisco. The place is going to shit. 100 plus billion dollars went to Ukraine war to just get Ukrainians killed and massacred. So what the hell? A fraction of that money would do so much good in America and give jobs there and…

Decent infrastructure, but where the hell is that going? They don’t give a damn. Homelessness is record level. Your country is populated by just a beast people who are deathly sick. Everyone’s fat there. Not everyone, but almost. I mean, it’s a sick society. The people governing there don’t give a damn about America, the land, or its people. And I think that’s bloody sad.

Because America used to be a great country and it’s just falling to bits. And if you look at the UK, it’s no different. We’ve got a uni party system, you know, is red blue, just like you guys, but there’s no choice. They do the same shit. And when it comes to all the major issues, there’s no difference. One just says, maybe do a little bit more than the other. And that’s, that’s a difference you’re getting. Like there’s no major policy changes. You have this superficial impression of choice.

But there is none. And that’s what makes me sad. Across the West, what made us great, you know, we were scientific, we were open-minded, we were tolerant, we were really pursuing real science and the humanities and the arts, culture. You know, we’ve lost all that. Now it’s censorship. Now science is following the narrative. And if you question that’s…

Ahmad (01:40:57.681)
unscientific. I mean, that’s mental, isn’t it? That’s upside down world. You know, we’re just depraved, you know, where we think now a man can be a woman and, you know, grown up man can go in a, in a, in a restroom. We’re low girls in it. And that’s okay. Cause he said, I’m a girl. You know, we’ve just lost the plot and that just makes me sad. You know, it’s like, I feel like things are going to get worse, unfortunately, before they get better.

But maybe the system has to fail because I don’t see any cure or fix now. What do you think?

Dan Cohen (01:41:33.022)
Yeah, definitely. I mean, it’s, you know, I think in the West, it’s kind of unstable, grim times in a way, but, you know, things are just unpredictable. And, um, uh, I think, you know, the, the system here is so bankrupt. Um, people, you know, just don’t believe in the establishment anymore. They don’t believe in the media. They don’t believe in the political class. And.

You know, it’s definitely ripe for change. It’s just, I think a lot of ways is like, what are we doing to organize ourselves to make that change? Cause if the opportunity is there, someone has to actually take actions to, to create it, which is, you know, easier said than done, but you know, it’s absolutely necessary. So, I mean, I think, uh, you know,

first identifying the problem and understanding that we’re dealing with, you know, these are not kind of compartmentalized or isolated or like siloed events, the Gaza war and the COVID event and the Ukraine war and, you know, all of these different things are actually all part of the same system. And we have to understand that. And, you know, understand who our enemies are, that it’s not, you know,

your uncle at the dinner table who voted for Trump or who said something stupid or your neighbor who, whatever, it’s like there are real, we have to understand the power structure that we live in. And I think that’s when we can really begin to have some kind of effect on our reality.

Ahmad (01:43:25.821)
Right. Okay. I’ve got two last questions. So my friend, 100% I agree with you there. And this is what I meant, like the climate scam, everything is carbon footprint. Everything’s related. It’s all one big web and we’re stuck in that web. And unless we can identify the spider or spiders and realize how everything is linked, we can’t really free ourselves from it. Anyway.

Dan Cohen (01:43:41.995)

Ahmad (01:43:50.517)
Look, imagine you’ve lived a very, very long life. You’re on your deathbed. You’re surrounded by your loved ones, your grandchildren, great grandchildren, and you’re about to meet your maker. You’re very comfortable. Don’t worry about that. What are you going to say to them? What last bits of wisdom and advice would you give them before you meet your maker?

Dan Cohen (01:44:11.114)
Wow, that’s a powerful question. I’ve never really thought of that. I mean, I would say practice forgiveness is very, very key because we spend way too much time, in personal conflicts that don’t need to consume our psychological energy. And our enemies are just not really.

Ahmad (01:44:36.981)

Dan Cohen (01:44:40.974)
who we think they are. They’re not people who have slighted us. It doesn’t mean you have to be friends with everyone, but we have to keep our eyes on the ball. And so, and spend time, of course, with your family and have as big a family as you can and just find like other people because they want us to be isolated. Find like-minded people.

They want us to be isolated. And when you’re isolated, you’re weak, you are stressed and you’re susceptible to propaganda and fear. And so like find community and it’s not, that’s not easy. I mean, I live in like one of the most isolating places in the world. I’m like an alien here in Washington, DC, but, um, you know, it’s essential to, to find that and to, you know, be the best person that you can be to.

Um, you know, to your family, to your friends and to, you know, good people all around.

Ahmad (01:45:45.897)
Amen. That’s lovely. You know, I, um, I loved my job because I used to love seeing people in my clinic room. I loved meeting people from all walks of life. I would hear fascinating stories. I would hear so many interesting things about people. Um, and I realized that we’re, we’re all just beautiful, wonderful people. Most people, vast majority are really good people. And you know, we need to love our strangers, not fear them.

because actually most people are fantastic. And one of the things I miss now not being able to work is that I’m at home now. I’m in my little garden studio, doing my little podcast, having a great chat with you, but I miss my human interactions. So one of the things I do is, when I get a new subscriber on Substack, or someone’s donated a lot of money on buy me a coffee, they bought me like five or 10 coffees or something, or whatever.

their founding member on my sub stack, $150 or something. I’ll say to them, give me your number. I wanna give you a call. And they go, what? And they go, okay, here’s my number. So, and I ring them. So like, I rang someone yesterday in Vancouver Island. And they’re like, oh my God, I’m talking to Doc Malik. I can’t believe you’re calling me. And I was like, actually, I need this call more than you realize. It’s for me too, because I’m connecting with you wonderful human beings. I miss-

Dan Cohen (01:46:59.374)

Ahmad (01:47:13.261)
that interaction and connection with my fellow man and woman. And that’s why I love calling and chatting to my supporters because it’s so true, man, isolation is horrible. Do you know isolation is a risk factor of cancer? It’s a risk factor of a heart disease. Like it really destroys your immune system. I mean, that’s why it’s a form of punishment. Yeah, yeah, 100%. So I think it’s really important that

Dan Cohen (01:47:33.674)
It’s torture. Yeah.

Ahmad (01:47:42.625)
We create communities now and we get people chatting and talking and know that they’re not alone. Okay, where can people find you and support you, my friend?

Dan Cohen (01:47:53.57)
So I’m very active on Twitter at Dan Cohen 3000. I have my own media outlet called Uncaptured Media. On Twitter it’s at Uncaptured News. And then I have my site that links to my sub stack is just uncaptured.media. So no.com, just uncaptured.media. So you can see my work there.

I’m about to drop a big investigation on the Israeli government’s war against these hostages in Gaza. So keep an eye out there. Please subscribe, support my work if you can. If you can’t, then it’s all good. But yeah, those are the main places. So yeah, follow me on Twitter at DanCohen3000 and then uncaptured.media.

Ahmad (01:48:50.681)
I love it. I’ve got a little merch store. I get one or two people buying stuff every week. I hardly make any money out of it, like 10% margin. But one of my things is uncaptured. I’ve got uncaptured caps, uncaptured t-shirt, because I think I’m an uncaptured doctor, which is why I’ve fallen foul of the establishment. And you’re an uncaptured independent journalist. You’re not beholden to anyone.

And while it’s scary, the positions that you and I are in, I’m sure you sometimes worry about like how you’re going to support your family and where the money’s going to come from. Cause like there’s no one just giving you a regular check. It’s kind of liberating. Like you’re true to yourself. You’re free. You’re not constrained in any way you’re and that unshackling is that liberation is amazing. It’s really quite exciting. And I feel a little bit nervous, but mostly excited about the future.

And I think one day people look back at us and recognize, if not tomorrow, maybe at some point in the future. And if we don’t get our rewards in this world, we’d definitely get it in the afterlife, I think. So Dan, thank you so much for everything you do, by the way.

Dan Cohen (01:49:58.562)
Thank you very much. Appreciate it. And, um, and, you know, I, I thank you for your bravery and speaking out on so many different issues and, um, you know, and, and it’s just insane how you’ve been, you’ve been punished and blacklisted for, uh, for just saying simple factual truths.

Ahmad (01:50:00.362)
Really appreciate it.

Ahmad (01:50:20.513)
It’s the upside down clown world that we’re living in today. It’s crazy. It’s a crazy time to be alive. All right, everyone. I’ll post all of Dan’s links on the website and podcast details. Hopefully at some point, maybe in the future, we’ll have him back. Um, please check him out. Please give him a follow. He is a wonderful man. Thank you. Dan.