#131 – The Red Pill Pharmacist

Graham Atkinson was a pharmacist and senior manager in the UK NHS for over 30 years working in local, regional and national roles. In 2020 and 2021 he had the confidence to challenge the mainstream narrative with the facts and blow large holes in the corporate virus and vaccine narratives.

The obvious truth was that the vast majority of patients were being disadvantaged and many harmed and killed in the mindless pursuit of “zero Covid”.What Graham witnessed pushed him to the point where he was no longer willing to participate. He had tried his best to change the system from the inside and deliver TRUE health.

However, Graham realised that the only way to help patients and communities was to walk away from the NHS to build a Naturally Better model of healthcare that will make the existing system redundant.

In this epic 3 hour conversation we delve into so many topics I can’t give this podcast episode any title.

Seriously, make the time to listen to this one, it’s a cracker.

I hope you enjoy it!

Ahmad (00:01.422)
I’m on your home territory. No, I’m not joking. So this whole thing that you’re talking about standing up your stand up man. Do you know who else was standing up on my podcast? Do you remember if you’re watching my podcast? I’ve listened to all of them. I’ve watched very few, but I don’t know who. Right. There’s a guy called Larry Palavesky. Do you remember him? The pediatrician? He’s amazing. So he was standing. I said to him, are you standing up? He said, yeah. He goes, I stand, I stand into my

podcast. I was like, Oh wow. I was like, you look like you’re six foot two. You went, Oh, that’s great. I’m actually five foot seven. Well, I’m six foot two. So maybe I shouldn’t stand up. Yeah. You tear over me. So why? Yeah. I know like why some people like to stand up. Why do you like to stand up? Well, initially it was health reasons. So I felt really tired at work. So sat down at work, really tired. You know, you’re looking down at a computer.

You’re looking down at your fingers. And I’m a runner like you. I want my body to work properly. I wanna be energized. And I just knew that standing up at work was much more healthy. So in the NHS, in my desk jobs, and also in, I worked in general practice for the last three years, you know, I got a standup desk. I bought my own standup desk. Yeah, but you know what it is? I also find that just standing on my own.

isn’t like, I can’t just stand still. I need to move. I need to move around a bit. Yeah, well that’s it. You’re always, I mean, I never had one of these sort of desk peddling bike things. I didn’t need one of those, but I’d have a, and I did get a wobble board at one point, but you don’t need to use a wobble board. You can just stand and move your feet and move your position around. Because you want to be dynamic. Because actually when you’re static for too long, it puts more pressures on your joints.

It puts more pressures on your discs. Your muscles aren’t working as well. Yeah, and your whole blood pump doesn’t work. Your venous return slows down, doesn’t it? Maybe halfway through this podcast, we can have a break and stretch our legs and stuff. We’ll have a stretch break. But you have to admit, these are nice chairs. Excellent, very comfortable. Yeah, and I’ve got a great view looking at you, Hamid. So yeah. Yeah, I mean, I was thinking about…

Ahmad (02:25.578)
you know, having a table that was, you know, can go up and down and you can stand and sit. It was quite expensive. I gave up and the dimensions weren’t right. And then I thought my guests might just be like, seriously, you’re going to have me standing. You know, at one point I even considered having a podcast like sitting down on the floor, like having like, you know, like a Moroccan style Arabian bed with, you know, kind of like cushions everywhere.

I’m not as flexible sat down as I probably should be. I’ve tried doing the yoga thing and it hurts me too much. I’m more dynamic. I like being stood up. I like moving. Well, see, this is the thing. I just thought if that’s the case, some people might one, not be able to get on the floor and two might not be able to get back up again. Yeah. So then from standing to sitting down on the floor, I just thought, you know what, let’s just stick to a desk and cheer. And it compresses your chest, doesn’t it? If you sat down, you know, your lungs are half empty.

and you struggle while I struggle to breathe. I’ve got huge lungs. I need to stand up and expand my chest. Do you sleep standing up? I not tried that one yet. I probably have dropped off a couple of times when I’ve been, uh, you can, you can try like one of those, um, you know, I don’t know if you’re watched star track, you’ve got like the Borg thing where you can like go in and just get strapped while you’re standing and then see how that

I do like lying down. I’ve just gone for the grounded sheets and the grounded pillow. So I’m plugged in. I’m grounded all night. Me and the wife, you know, invested in it two weeks ago and what a revelation. Oh my goodness. So one of my former patients, because I’m not a doctor anymore, like working practicing, one of my former patients, Jordan Thomas, who’s also a listener and supporter,

Ahmad (04:17.514)
Hey, Ahmed, this is the earthing mats that my mom gets. She’s an ambassador. There’s, they’re not super cheap, but supposed to be some of the best ones. And he’s recommending it. Yeah, absolutely. I would wholly endorse it. I mean, I’ve known about grounding for many years and I’ve, you know, tried to get grounded outside, you know, when there’s harder in the winter, but here in the UK, but you know, wake up in the morning, get out bare feet on the grass, look at the sunrise, stare at the sun for 20 minutes minimum, if you can.

So that’s the thing I do about five to 10 minutes. Yeah, well, I mean, now I’m no longer working. It’s much easier, but when I was a corporate and working in primary care, yeah, it’s really difficult, but now I can, I do it when I can. So grounded outside, it’s harder in the winter, but why not ground all night when you’re asleep? So get yourself grounded sheet, grounded pillows. And yeah, we were a bit skeptical, but oh my God, our sleep was transformed. We’re sleeping so much more deeply.

Listen, honestly, this time last year, buddy, I was a bit skeptical. I was like, oh man, how does grounding really work? But since then, right in the last month, I’ve spoken to Jared Pollock about structured water. And he was like, you need to have structured water, this easy water, and you get it through the energy, the electrons from the air. And that’s because the air is positively charged. And this is how we build it. I was like, oh, and then I just. Jack Cruise? Yeah.

Then I heard Sarah Pugh last weekend, right? And that was at the Red Pill Buddha Big Fat Challenge, Phil Escott, Ben Hunt. And I was at this Warren Health Conference and Sarah Pugh was talking about quantum biology and how we need electrons, we need these to charge us. We need this energy. This is how grounding works. Well, it makes you feel more positive, doesn’t it? All these words are in our language. We were either drained.

or were fully charged. You know, we’ve been using these words without really understanding what they actually meant. But now quantum biology is, it is a real thing, but it’s been absent in allopathy. I’m sure we’ll get into this in more detail, but the rest of the scientific world has moved on into quantum. So, you know, just as Jack Cruz and Sarah talk about, you know, chemistry, physics, maths are all quantum. Biology, medicine, healthcare has never become quantum.

Ahmad (06:42.198)
We’re stuck in the Newtonian age. We’re stuck in the dark ages in modern medicine. It’s, you know, they actually opposite, you know, like lots of things, it’s an oxymoron. It’s the 180 degree inversion that we’re living through at the minute. It really is. Do you know what? I’m really glad you came today. So am I, mate. Do you know why? Honestly, you know, I’ve been a bit under the weather this.

week again.

It was like my little boy had a fever, then I got the fever, then my wife’s got it. She’s upstairs in the bedroom. Anyway, I’ve bounced back. I took really high doses of vitamin C and vitamin D and zinc. And I think it was like literally one and a half days when I was poorly. Anyway, but yeah, I’m like, I was thinking like, again, I have these thoughts like, what have I done? Am I crazy?

What does my average orthopedic colleague think of me? He’s given away hard-won career, looked of job, good money to do what? Become a podcaster? You’re living your true life, aren’t you? You feel it all the time. You can hear it in your voice. You can see it in your face. You’re not living a lie anymore. And that’s how I feel, exactly. I was living a lie and when you…

Excuse me. When you turn away from that, you know, it’s the right thing. Cause this is, you feel it. You can’t stop going in that direction. If you try, you’ll become ill. So you will have these cleanses, you know, probably what you’ve gone through in the last few days, what your family going through is you’re throwing off some things you don’t need anymore. I don’t, I don’t believe you’ve caught some pathogenic illness that is contagious. You know, but you’re cleansing yourselves. You know, this is well known in the non allopathic.

Ahmad (08:41.558)
medical system, you know, the body occasionally throws off toxins, throws off things that are no longer needed. So I’ve heard of this. I’ve heard of this. And I get this because the idea that we get toxins is not woo-woo. It’s genuine real stuff, you know, and there’s toxins everywhere. Toxins, heavy metals, toxins, chemicals, plastics. I mean, I don’t know what it is. 40,000 chemicals now we’re exposed to.

There’s, there’s toxins in the form of radiation. I think people don’t talk about that. I need to get someone on my podcast to talk about radiation and EMS and whatnot. Cause it’s not, it’s not all conspiracy theory. I mean, this is genuinely, we, you know, if we could see it, we would realize how much we’re being bombarded with it. It’s just because it’s invisible. It’s the invisible spectrum. It’s that invisible spectrum. Invisible rainbow. Arthur Fishtenberg. So if you can’t see it,

You think, ah, it’s not there, but it’s there, it’s everywhere. Um, but yeah, anyway, I’m still not 100% there in the sense that there’s no contagion. And because like my little boy had it and I slept with him and he coughed into my face all night long. And then the next day I’ve got what he’s got. And I slept with my wife, you know, and I was right next to her breathing on her.

And then she’s got it. So I like, I don’t know. I’m not quite ready to let go. And I think we should remain open and be skeptical. But I think the explanation I’ve settled on for now anyway, and I’m completely open to this being wrong and learning something newer, but the idea that there are pathogenic bacterial viruses out there to get us and kill us, I don’t subscribe to anymore. I did. I believed what I was taught. And I believed we had antifungals, antibacterials, antivirals. I’ve used them. I’ve…

not prescribe them, but dispense them. But I now believe a much better description of what we see and feel and observe as humans is that we are passing on information between ourselves about how to detox and when to detox. So we observe cleanses passing between families, between friends, and quite often these cleanses happen when we let our guard down. So when we go on holiday, so we’re stressed out at work,

Ahmad (10:57.986)
week in, week out, month in, month out, and then how often does it happen that people go on holiday and they arrive and they feel awful? All the time. All the fracking time. Absolutely, and I believe a much better explanation is that your brain has sensed that the time is now opportune to have a cleanse, to throw off something you don’t need. So you’ve been stressed for months, for weeks, you know, maybe years, and the brain has sensed.

an easing in the stresses such that there is energy in the body to cleanse and to heal things that have been repressed and put away in the corners of your body for a day when it’s safe to cleanse. So your brain is simply going today’s the day and then your family sense the same thing. Your friends sense the same thing and some of that may be passed between people. I’m completely open to that.

that we communicate maybe hormonally, maybe through exosomes, which might be the alternative description of what viruses are. Are they bacteria, the gut biome? Absolutely. I mean, the thing is like- These are all us at the end of the day. It’s our own biome. I mean, the thing is there’s like how many times more bacteria in our body than humans have? I think we are, percentage wise, we’re like 1% human, aren’t we? Something like that. It’s actually mental. Yeah, yeah. We’re like this like massive-

ball of bacteria and we’re just carrying them around. Yeah, we are a symbiotic organism. You know, we are the terrain, aren’t we? We can, you know, terrain and germ theory. But yeah. So the thing is like, I think even like you start sharing the biome like with your pets and stuff like that. And so like my wife and I, my son, you know, we’ve all got, we’ve got the same biome and these bacteria are also messengers. Like this, they transmit information.

But then they create hormones and they do this and they do that. So, I mean, we don’t know how information is spread, but then also we’re magnetic beings. Of course. Yeah. So how does that effecting how surely that must be having some kind of effect on transmission of knowledge or information from one body to another. Well, if you study the Eastern cultures and I’m only just getting into this. But if you know the traditions in the Eastern cultures, you know, either Chinese or the Vedic Indian cultures.

Ahmad (13:26.062)
You know, they talk about five bodies, so five levels of… So our physical body that we can actually see and touch is our innermost level. There are four levels beyond that. And this is where our, possibly where our mind is. So the idea that our mind is in our brain and in our head, and that’s it, according to these ancient traditions, is not correct. And our minds actually extend way beyond our physical body.

So the idea that we can feel each other’s thoughts and we can communicate telepathically across distances has a basis in tradition, but it’s been hidden from us. It’s been, you know, we’re not really supposed to believe this, it’s not scientific, is it? Because you can’t measure it. And just because you can’t measure something, you know, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. So I believe I’m an empath, I believe I can feel things. You know, for many years I thought I could think things and I could just…

deduce things mentally, you know, and I could make simplicity out of complexity. I now think that like many people, probably like all of us, we have the ability to sense each other from a distance. I mean, it’s been shown, there’s a wonderful guy at Cambridge, I think it might be Oxford, called Rupert Sheldrake. I listened to some of his podcasts and he for many years has done experiments on children and adults and…

it’s been proven that people know when they’re being watched from behind. So somebody can be staring at the back of your head. You’re aware of it. How can you be aware of it if you can’t see it? So these things are real. They are demonstrably true. And I know that I’ve, I’ve been in that situation so many times. I know someone’s looking at me and I turn around and I can, and you catch them looking at you. I mean, how many times

This probably happens to guys more than girls, but you know, cause, cause women have got better peripheral vision, haven’t they? But how many times have you been staring at a woman and she, and she turns and catches you? Never. I believe you. I’m happily married. Of course I’m talking about much younger time. Look, but don’t touch. Touch, but don’t taste. Completely. Taste, but don’t swallow. Right. Do you know where that comes from? Please tell me. Devil’s advocate, the movie.

Ahmad (15:46.374)
The devil was telling Keanu Reeves. I can definitely subscribe to that, but I’m talking, of course I’m talking about much earlier time before I was happily married. Last 30 years. Sure, sure, sure. So what are the different other bodies? Like the four different bodies, you can’t just like throw that out there and then like, and then stop. Like what did you read into what the other thing was? I’ve read a bit of it and I’ve got, I’m one of these people who buys books and then I’ve got a big book.

shelf waiting to be read. So I’m the same. Yeah. So I’ve, I get so interested in something and I’ll buy three or four books and then I’ll read a little bit and then I’ll get interested in something else. And I’ve, when I’m next, um, on holiday, uh, well, I, I’m exposed, I’m not holding now, but I need to catch up. So one of the things that I’ve only scratched the surface on is these five levels, but they are, uh, I’ve, I’ve participated in, in group, group educational sessions about this, trying to listen to or learn from people who are much more.

knowledgeable than myself. So I don’t profess to be in any way an expert here. But I’m aware that for thousands of years, the teachings of our ancestors will say that there are electromagnetic layers that extend beyond the physical body that are actually us. So our soul, if you like, our soul is contained, I believe, in the upper two and a half layers.

And all of these, it’s like Russian dolls. So they’re not separate. They’re the physical bodies inside the other four. So at our very essence, yes, we are a soul living in a physical body. Exactly. That’s what I always say. An eternal soul in a temporary physical body. Do you know what the funny thing is? I need to thank you for not bringing a book. Because I- I’m leaving you with another book. Because I’ve got this great book.

Choose Life, the Tools, Tricks and Hacks of Long-Term Family Travelers, World Schoolers and Digital Nomads by Daniel Prince. Daniel Prince was on my podcast. He’s a great guy, love him. But like, oh man, I’ve got so many books now to read. So when I come back another time, if you’ll have me, I may well have a book that I’ve written. So I am partway through writing my own book, but that’s for another time. Well, well done for getting started. I mean, I’ve been planning on writing a book since a year ago.

Ahmad (18:10.506)
a Doc Malick simple guide to good health. I haven’t even typed one single word yet. I’ve like been writing in my head. I recently had Robert Malone on my podcast. I was like, how the hell did you manage to get a book out in January, 2020 on the COVID pandemic typeset font, printed, published, edited, the whole shebam. He’s obviously got a big team around him, hasn’t he? I mean, I heard him say that was very envious. I’ve been a year and a half now and I’m probably a third the way he finished.

We need to get his team on board like that. I mean, we need him and his wife writing us books. We’re missing out. I don’t know what the heck. Anyway, so yeah, I do need to catch up on my books. But the thing is like, I just don’t know when, I don’t know when, because I’m like either too busy doing the podcast, researching the podcast, searching out guests, editing, publishing, writing subsets, and then still trying to spend.

time with my family. That’s important. Yeah. We’ve got to be human doings. Yeah. So tell me, you started this journey before me. I’ve turned my back on being, you know, an, uh, a doctor and a surgeon. You know, I feel like, you know, maybe I didn’t have a choice, but you know, I, um, I wasn’t comfortable with it because it was forced upon me. You know, I,

where I couldn’t practice anymore. And now I’m just, I’m embracing that and thinking, okay, you know what, in adversity lies opportunity and maybe this is my purpose, maybe this is my calling. But you went through something similar, but you weren’t forced into that, were you? Or tell me, talk me through it. Yeah, okay, so my story, if you haven’t come across it before, I trained as pharmacist in the late 80s, essentially I had a 30.

two year career as a pharmacist. I’m as of 1st of January, 2024, I’m no longer registered as a pharmacist. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. Did you ask to be removed? No, I didn’t. Unlike medicine and the GMC, the pharmaceutical society don’t seem very keen to prosecute, you know, errant pharmacists. I didn’t have to ask to be removed like some of your guests have talked about before.

Ahmad (20:32.41)
I just stopped paying. I just said, I don’t want to be renewed anymore, so I’m off the register. Oh, that’s it. It’s as simple as that. That’s as simple as that, yeah. Guess what it’s like for me? Do you know what it’s like for me? You have to apply to be allowed to leave. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So I have applied. I’ve done something called the voluntary erasure. Dude, you know, on the GMC portal, nowhere does it say where you can leave.

And it says frequently asked questions. You can ask for advice and everything. And then it says, yeah, you need to complete this form, but there’s no link. There’s no click. It’s easy to leave the club. They don’t make it easy. So I can’t be it’s a prison. Yeah. And you’re not here voluntarily. So I’m like looking around the website, go where’s the fracking form? And then the exit. Yeah. Where’s the exit? Like they keep telling you, oh, here, this is how you exit, but they don’t actually show you.

And so I kept going round and round and you would click this, it would take you to another information page and you click this and it would take you back to the page. It felt like it’s like a, like a loop. I was just going for this. It’s like the Italian job. You get the minis going round on the roof of the food factory. 100%. And I was like, this is it. So I just stopped all that. And then I went through every single clickable page on the website and under, um, something I can’t remember now.

under some obscure thing, but it doesn’t even say exit or whatever. It’s like applications under applications and then something else. Then it’s like this drop down thing and voluntary erasure form. And you’re like, really? Really? And then you read it and it says, send this voluntary erasure form to the last hospital or whatever in the last 30 days. I can’t remember now, whatever it was where you’ve worked.

And basically the form you sent to the hospital and the bottom half of the top half of it is your details that they need to fill in. And the bottom half of it is, tell us whether essentially tell us whether this doctor should be investigated by us before we let him go or let her go. And any crimes that you want to admit to before you leave this prison. Isn’t that mental? Well, I would say, yeah, probably two, three years ago, three years ago, I would have said, yeah.

Ahmad (22:48.61)
That’s ridiculous, but I’m not surprised at all. So you want to hear something even more funny? So basically I did this form, cause look, I’m not practicing at any hospitals, right? Suspended me, kicked me out, whatever. And it’s very expensive running a practice. I was losing money for months and months. I had to let go of my secretary and I have to stop. I can’t practice. I’m bankrupt.

So I’m like, why should I stay in the GMC anymore? Why should I pay my registration fee? Why should I do appraisals? It doesn’t make sense anymore. I might as well just quit. And it’s like, yeah, so one hospital I gave the form to, they’ve done it and I sent it to the GMC. And the GMC goes, have you worked anywhere else and you know, from November to December? And I was like, well, technically I was with this other hospital, but I never saw any patient there, never treated anyone. And I terminated the contract on the 5th of December. And then they go.

Yeah. We want you to do the form there as well anyway. And it’s like, they just keep shifting the goalposts, delaying it, making it harder. And it’s like, so it’s not even like a divorce where you go, Ahmed, I don’t want to be married to you anymore. And I go, well, great. I don’t want to be married to you, Graham anymore. And then after a while, we just part ways and going, it’s like, no, you say to me, I don’t want to get married to you anymore. And I go, well, think about it. And you can’t get out.

What kind of marriage is that? You’ve taken a blood oath, haven’t you, in a way? You know, you’ve joined the Creed, you know, you’re in the Brotherhood, you know, it’s a secret society. You know, you can’t be allowed to leave and talk about things outside. That would be too dangerous, wouldn’t it? Oh man, it’s just mental. Yeah, so leaving pharmacy world isn’t as hard, thankfully. I’m glad to hear that. But I, I mean, I…

Yeah, I’m not sure why I became a pharmacist originally. I know we were talking a bit off air. I believe I’m actually an alchemist. You know, I think my true self, my true soul, you know, path, if you like, is as an alchemist rather than a chemist, a pharmacist. But- What’s the difference? Well, I think, I mean, alchemy goes back obviously into medieval times and earlier than that, but I think at its heart, it’s about transforming energy.

Ahmad (25:04.254)
alchemists transform energy. And that’s what I believe I’m now doing. Every day when I’m challenged and I get triggered by the darkness, shall we say, as we all do, I try my best to go, okay, how can we turn this into positive energy? I’m here to transmute energy. That’s why I believe I’m here. I’m upset. I got really excited for a second. I thought you were gonna convert some of my.

Should you be mad to go to? Yeah, well, I’m working on it. I’ll let you know. Well, you’re not an alchemist. You just pretend one than me. Well, my wife, my wife, who is a pharmacist, a clinic, a very good clinical pharmacist, she’s an advanced clinical pharmacist. She always calls me a fake pharmacist because I’ve never really gone down the clinical path. So I qualified in the late 80s and I joined here in the UK. We’ve got Boots the chemist. We still have boots, although they’re a bit smaller and they’re very different to how they were when I joined.

but I went straight down the management path. I was sort of fast-tracked into management early on. So whilst I’ve retained my clinical qualification for 30 odd years, I’ve never really wanted to be a clinical pharmacist. I’ve always been a manager and a strategic bureaucrat, if you like, in my NHS days, who has a clinical background and understanding. Dude, I thought I liked you. I don’t like managers.

No, I’m okay. I’m a pharmacist first. Yeah, well, we’re too late, mate. You’re back dragging. I’ve got a lot of, probably convincing to do on the manager. Yeah, because I think… Are there anything, is there such a thing as a good manager? I believe the good in everyone. I still, I’m very optimistic. I’m very hopeful about everyone until proven otherwise. I believe everybody’s got a good soul and has the potential to be good, but a lot of people are…

taken by dark energies, by the system, by the matrix, however you want to refer to it. And their minds are polluted and they become part of the problem. So yeah, I would say in my time, I’ve not met in terms of behaviors and deliverables that managers that I’ve worked with, especially the very senior managers. And I worked at board level for 20 years in the NHS. There are a lot of dark people there.

Ahmad (27:20.442)
And you know, I would go as far now with hindsight, I think you describe it as psychopathic tendencies. Yeah. And I, and I, what I now understand much better is that the people who actually rise to that level probably are sociopathic, psychopathic, that type of Dude, you’re describing yourself. I know. I know I am, but I, what happened to me, and it was many times in my career, I reached a glass ceiling. There was, I, I’ve probably had about five different careers. Oh, that’s because you’re not

Are you a member of the funny handshake? Oh, no, no. So that’s your problem. Absolutely. Well, yeah, I think that’s part of it. And my very first chairman when I first joined the NHS, a primary care trust in the UK, so if you like health authority. So this is 2002. My very first chairman was a very, he was a business, he was local businessman, local wheeler dealer. He probably in his late seventies.

And he came to me one day and he would, would you like to come to my club? And I looked at it. I had no idea what he meant. I didn’t know if he was talking about a strip club or a golf club or anything, you know, but I, you know, I’m now absolutely sure what he was talking about was, would you like to come to my lodge? Really? Oh, I’m sure. And I said, no, I don’t think so. Straight away, I said, Did you just feel something? I just felt something. A funny feeling turned the back of your spine going, ooh, no. Yeah, my gut said, no.

You don’t want to be drinking baby’s blood or something? Well, of course. I had no idea at that time. I thought the lodge was, you know, like maybe a lot of people think of these things as like a part of society that does its return, it’s wealthy businessmen returning favours to the community and helping out disadvantaged people. Oh, it sounds so nice, doesn’t it? It does, yeah, but I, you know, that isn’t the reality as we all know now, but…

So I said no very early on in my career, I managed to progress to board level and got promoted a few times, ended up doing a national role. Um, so when Cameron and Clegg and Lansley came 2010, that was awful. It was awful. So they abolished, uh, they started destroying the NHS. So they, so I was, I was a director board level director in 2010. I received a notice of redundancy.

Ahmad (29:43.894)
So Holden, what was your title? I was director of commissioning in a primary care trial. So I’d been a director. So my role as director of commissioning, essentially to manage the public purse in a local area, sort of population of quarter of a million, maybe up to half a million people. You’re receiving maybe half a billion pounds of public taxpayers’ money. And your job is to receive and understand the national policy directive from the government for the NHS.

and then make local decisions, local prioritization decisions, you’re changing contracts with hospitals. So I might say to you as an orthopedic surgeon, we’re actually doing too many shoulder operations that aren’t necessary and we need to do more cardiac operations. So I’m gonna shrink the size of the orthopedic contract in the hospital because we need to shunt money into cardiac operations. Or I might say to the diabetologist, the endocrinologist,

We’re going to prevent type 2 diabetes. So I’m going to take some money off your clinic and I’ll say that to the ophthalmologist and the orthopedic surgeon as well because we’ve got because we’re preventing diabetes We don’t need as many foot amputations. We don’t need as many eye operations. There won’t be as many strokes or heart attacks So I’m going to take some that money off you and I’m going to spend it on primary prevention in the community And I’m going to work with schools. I’m going to work with disadvantaged groups I’m going to work with gardening clubs and we’re going to prevent type 2 diabetes. Yeah

So that was my job. Hold on one second. Sorry. Yeah. Just wait one second. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Back up. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on one second. Sorry, just very quickly.

Ahmad (00:00.354)
Right, so the question I want to ask you is, what you just said to me sounds great, also sounds very contradictory. So what do I mean by that? You just said, the government informs us of the national policies and priorities and what they want, and then your job is to implement locally things that are important in the diabetic prevention. They sound separate, they sound completely contradictory. What were you actually doing? Were you…

Were you doing what the government wanted and national policies and politics? Or were you doing things that were relevant to the local population? Because they seem very different to me. And the thing is part of the problem that I saw when I was in the NHS was the political, political ization of the NHS and healthcare. And I think local hospital hospitals should be let free. The rain should be off. They should be allowed to do whatever they think is necessary.

for their community and I saw disconnect. Yeah, absolutely. You’re absolutely correct. So if in a cash limited system and the NHS and healthcare is cash limited, at the end of the day, there is only a finite amount of money. You will have to make decisions about where that money is spent and allocated. So if you leave it to frontline clinicians, so in particularly secondary care clinicians to make that decision, it’s a bit like,

you know, if you’re holding a hammer, everything’s a nail. Oh yeah. So, I mean, you know, as an orthopedic surgeon, if you do X-ray or, you know, any type of scan on, I mean, I’m late fifties, you know, I’ve never been near a scan, but I’m pretty sure if you or one of your colleagues scanned my body, you could find 20 things that you would like to fix in my body, but. Not that many, but yeah, a few things. A few things, but I actually don’t have any pain.

You know, I run and I walk with no pain. So what’s the problem? Exactly. So if you leave it to the frontline, it doesn’t matter what discipline it is, they will always see lots of nails and the nails add up to more money than the budget. So ultimately somebody somewhere has to do what’s called prioritization and allocation of resources. And that’s what I did. And the government talk a good talk. So when policy documents come out, every year there’s a…

Ahmad (02:21.482)
an NHS mandate or a new policy document comes from the health minister. And it will say lovely things like we’re going to address mental health and we’re going to reverse diabetes and we’re going to. It’s always lovely. We’re going to stroke children and well maybe that’s the wrong phrase. We’re going to actually look after children’s health in a way that means they don’t become ill. So these words are in there, but actually behind it, what they want to do. What do you mean this stroke children? What I, you know.

inappropriate phrase, but what I mean is they actually look after the health and wellness of young people so they don’t become ill. So we don’t tend to spend any money on children after they’ve been vaccinated and through school. The funding per person that’s spent is predominantly on older people and very young people and pregnant women. Yeah, there’s very little money spent on young adults.

trying to keep them well and healthy. No, you’re right. So, and it may, I think we would all understand that you could invest a little bit in a lot of people to slow down their, you know, their aging and their progression of their diseases. And that’s what these documents talk about. But actually underneath what I now recognize looking back is that the policy direction is let’s have bigger hospitals, more hospitals, more drugs, more healthcare.

because that’s the economy. That’s the business and healthcare is a business. It’s about growing the business of sickness. It definitely is growing the business of sickness. Do you not think it’s also a gravy train? Absolutely. So I found the NHS to be really corrupt and money exchanges between those who have the contracts and those who can dish out the contracts.

and they want to justify their budgets. And if they want to keep their budget or grow their budget, they need to spend it. Even if they don’t need to spend it, they will spend it on crap, inefficiently, or on contracts or goods or services, just so they can justify next year’s budget. Because you don’t want to show that you can make a saving because then your budget for next year will be cut. And I mean, the easiest budget to change is the prescribing budget.

Ahmad (04:45.446)
the primary care GP prescribing budget. So I was a director of commissioning and I was a head of medicines management. Those are some of the roles that I had. So I was actually, if you like the biggest drug dealer in town, you know, I had a hundred million pound drug budget that I was accountable for. I could write policies and change the formula in my area to change the way that budget was spent. And it’s actually quite easy to save millions of pounds in year. I’ve done it.

I’ve done it repeatedly in different areas. And what never happened was, you know, that money never came back to me to spend differently on drugs. It always disappeared and went into the hospital to spend on operations or something else. So I very rarely managed to secure the savings to spend on prevention in the community. It usually went to pay off debts in the hospital or pay for the latest DICTAC from the government, which was about the latest operation or the latest.

procedure in hospitals. But like so much money actually does go to paying off debt. The PFI, Fiasco. I mean, I don’t know what percentage of a hospital’s budget now goes to pay off the debt. I’m sure it’s massive. At least 20% or 25%. I mean, it must be a massive amount of money. It’s a huge drain. And then there’s also just, just rank corruption. I think it’s just so much waste. I mean, I, I mean, we started talking about Lansley.

in the NHS here in 2010 and Clegg and Cameron. So that’s when my days as a board level director came to an end. And I was given three and a half years notice of redundancy, three and a half years. What do you mean three and a half years? I was told in early 2010, it was three years, three months. So beginning of 2010, when Cameron and Clegg came in, all board level directors in primary care trusts were served a redundancy notice that on the 31st of March, 2013,

you will be redundant, your role is not so, I mean, I think this is unheard of, people in the private sector would say, what are you talking about? So I was told I, my role- You’d be out of a job in three years. Yes. That’s a long time. It’s a very long time. So it’s like the sword of Damocles hanging over your neck. What’s that all about? Because that would even drain your will to work or do a good job or what, I mean, like it’s the most ridiculous thing ever. Yep, so a lot of people in my level saw it, just if you like,

Ahmad (07:09.206)
just lasted out those last three years. A lot of them took early retirement. Some of them just put their feet up and didn’t do much. I got moved into national roles and I was working nationally on the, behind the scenes, I was like a policy advisor on the 2012 Health and Social Care Act going through parliament. And until that time, I wouldn’t say I believed in politics, but I thought I understood what politics actually was. And the…

politicians were there to serve the people. It’s all right, I’ve been a muggins too. I know. It’s all right, it’s okay buddy, it’s okay. Yeah, I know. It’s all right. And it didn’t take long for me to realize that, yes, Prime Minister was actually a documentary. I know, right? Yeah. And so I had to get out of there. I had to get out of the national roles and I went back to local roles. And that was my first sort of semi-awakening that, ooh, I don’t think.

The world is quite as I thought it was, but I thought it was just politics. And I did get made redundant in March 2013. My services were no longer required. Why was that? Why I bumped up against the glass ceiling, I think. What I realize now, looking back, is that there was a club and I wasn’t in it. Well, welcome. Welcome to my club. A badge of honor. Dude, welcome to my club. My club is the club.

of those who are not members of clubs. So I see that as once again, the universe intervened to save me. I believe that now. It was very painful at the time and you know, to be told you’re not needed and nobody knows what you do anyway. Did I come up with a name for my club? Frac U club. Frac U club. Yeah. Seriously. Are you a member of the Frac U club?

I think so. Good. Just song. Well, we will never need to leave. Will we? But we don’t need rules to stop you leaving because nobody wants to leave. Good. The best thing about my fracking club is that there is no rules. There’s no rules. There’s no registry. There’s no top dog. There’s no nothing. And you know what? Even better, there’s no membership fees. How cool is that? Right? We’re both in. And you can come in and out whenever you like. Whatever. Sounds great.

Ahmad (09:23.094)
So, I wasn’t made redundant. I spent three years working as a consultant in the pharmaceutical industry. So- Well, hold on one second. So, what the fuck? What the fuck? So, you first of all become a goddamn manager, like the most detestable class. No, I’m just joking. To all the nice managers listening to the podcast, you’re different. And you know, if you listen to my podcast, you must be a nice person. But anyway.

from becoming a manager, you then go and work for Big Pharma. Yeah. Dude, you lost the plot. I did, seriously. But I, once again, I think I look back on all these different aspects of my life, really, my career, and I believe I was being shown things and prepared for what is now unveiling itself and what will come next. And I’m sure we can come onto that. So I now see these as blessings.

So I went and worked for the pharmaceutical industry as a gun for hire, if you like, because whatever you may believe about the pharmaceutical industry, they are rubbish at selling their drugs. Really? Yeah. And I don’t wish to be critical of the people working in there who work very hard in the marketing teams and the medical teams, but the reason they are rubbish at selling those drugs is because the NHS is like a foreign language.

If you’re not in it, I mean, it took me probably took me three years to understand how the NHS worked when I joined. So if you’re in a drug company and you’ve made a wonderful, let’s just say you’ve got you actually do have a really good product, but it’s pretty safe and it does what it says it does. And it’s actually, you know, will help people that will save lives and it will reduce the burden of disease. So you’ve produced a new drug. Is there such a thing? Probably few in number. Okay.

Very few in London. Maybe that’s one of the reasons why it’s their crap at selling things. Probably, but even, let’s just be kind for a minute. Say you actually managed to do that. I don’t like being kind, but okay fine. Well, so the ability of your teams to talk to the NHS decision makers in such a way that they say, yes, we will admit your drug. I mean, I’m talking pre 2020 now because I think things have changed significantly.

Ahmad (11:44.27)
But back in the 90s or the noughties after that, if you’d got a worthy product, and the same would be true of a medical device, an implantable, a new hip, whatever, the same is true there. It’s the same process you have to go through. You have to, before you can get the clinician to use your products, be it a device or a drug, you have to get the yes men, the bureaucrats, the managers.

to admit that product onto the formulary, if you like, so that Doc Malik can actually order it. Because if it’s not on the order list, you can’t have it. Yeah. So the first job is for the marketing team to understand what their unique selling proposition is to the NHS. And to do that, you need to understand how the money flows. You need to understand what the targets are. You need to understand what the dictats from government are.

You need to understand the language and you need to know who. And all of those things are cloaked in mystery to most people outside the NHS. But I’d spent 15 years in there. I knew all those things. So I was an ideal person to sort of sit in the middle between the pharmaceutical industry and the NHS and be the translator piece. You know, the funny thing you used to say about this whole translator piece business and language, do you know what I really fracking hated?

I was clinical director and I got to speak to lots of managers. Some of them were quite nice. It’s a fracking management speak. Oh, absolutely. It’s bullshit. It’s about making yourself look clever when you’re not. It’s like making yourself look like you’re busy doing stuff when you’re not. I’m an advocate of speak plain English. Don’t speak gobbledygook to me. Don’t give me this jargon.

I completely agree. I mean, it drives me nuts. Yeah. And it’s a career ladder, you know, and to get to the top, you need to speak the language. You need to be the right type of person and you need to do the things that, that the government wants you to do. And if you stand out in any way, you’re not going to get promoted. So you know what? Whenever anyone started speaking those metrics and this and that, I can’t even speak that fracking language. It’s so stupid.

Ahmad (14:08.274)
I just wanted to say, bullshit, to their face. Just speak plain fracking English to me. Well, we called it feeding the beast. So, I mean, there’ll be many people in the NHS bureaucracy or the healthcare bureaucracy around the world that probably resonate with this. We called much of our job feeding the beast and the beast being the people above us who needed data.

or needed a report or needed to know that targets were being hit. It might have been an MP’s question. So the minister in the UK parliament will be asked a question, and he would have to give a written answer. So we’d all, the whole NHS would get sent a spreadsheet saying, count this thing, count this, how many of these were done in the last two weeks. It’s like a huge FOI request, Freedom of Information request. So there’d be…

thousands of people all across the NHS, both in health authorities and in hospitals, that would be counting something, all because a minister had been asked a question, you know, a sort of five line question. And everything stopped because that was the deadline that had to be hit, you know, that would happen every week. So we called it feeding the beast. So there were lots of cycles, there was the annual planning cycle, monthly reporting cycles, but you know.

that the clock’s always ticking and the beast is watching and you have to feed the beast. And if you don’t. 100%. Yeah. Do you know, I don’t even subscribe to 100%. There’s some nefarious agenda and it’s all designed, evil behind it. I mean, some of it might be, you know, but I think a lot of it is the beast is the system, the bureaucracy, the self-feeding system, which just…

is all about creating work to justify more work and more jobs and the salaries and their titles. And the appearance that good is being done for the people. The appearance that, look how busy we are guys, we’re busy, we’re digging a hole, we’re digging a hole, we’re filling the hole, we’re digging it, we’re filling it, we’re digging it. And it’s like, we didn’t need a hole. We didn’t need a hole. But why don’t we do some screening to find more holes?

Ahmad (16:23.05)
Right. Let’s do some screening. Let’s do some screening. And let’s commission some research on how to find more holes. Right. And whether, what’s the most effective way of creating those holes? Yeah. Well, yes, if we create holes in advance, you know, we can actually learn to fill them even better. So we need a team to actually make holes in the first place. Do you see what I mean? Yeah. It’s a total fracking bullshit. It sounds ridiculous, but it’s quite close to reality. This is what happens.

It was meant to and the number of people that I saw coming in with these, you know, you know, McKinsey’s and PWC’s and whatever, getting paid 500, a thousand pounds a day, consultancy and implementing change. Oh, first of all, thinking what can we change? How can we change it? How fast should we change it? When should we change it? Let’s change it. We’ve changed it now. Oh shit. It doesn’t work. Let’s change it back. I’ll tell you, but what’s the best way to change it back and then, Oh, let’s get another consultancy firm in.

And before you know it, you spent a million pounds and you’ve gone 10 steps forward and 12 back. Yeah, well, I’ll tell you a funny story. When I first joined in 2002, I can’t remember the name of the government report, but the National Audit Office or something like that produced a government report. And it looked into change management in the NHS. And the bottom line of this document, this is 2002, the bottom line was the NHS is extremely good at learning the lessons

need to be learned in order to change for the better, but useless at implementing them. And that hasn’t changed to this day. So what is it like you say, it’s a revolving gravy train of management consultancy firms. There’s the big four who come in all the time. And every time there’s a problem, I will get one of the big four in. And that means we can kick the can down the road for at least a year, possibly three. So we need a new hospital in Aylesbury. Yeah, the MPs

feeling the heat, the public are baying for blood, it’s crumbling, it’s made of flaky concrete, all that sort of stuff. Let’s bring in the consultants that’ll keep everybody away from our door for five years, possibly 10 if we can stretch it out. And we won’t need to spend any money. But everybody knows we’re doing good work. And that’s what happens. Can you also tell me, expand upon the budgets because there’s an investment.

Ahmad (18:48.822)
budget they can feed into. And then there’s a kind of running daily budget. And what I found was whenever I did a business case, I wanted to get an additional nurse in my clinic who could do some screening tests, a nurse that could do wounds, take stitches. And that would then free up my time to see new patients. And I did a business case showing that if I saw a new patient, I would generate more revenue than me checking on a wound.

So having a nurse or physio that I could train up to do, you know, clinic would actually pay for itself and more and I would make money from it. But I would want an initial investment, you know, of that nurse or physio. And I need an upfront payment. But within a year, it will be paying for itself and more. But what I found was the money for that was impossible. But the money to pay for

you know, problems was always there. Yeah. So, and even if that meant like a hospital was losing my… I’ll give you an example. Actually, I’ve got a fantastic example. So, there’s a system, you know, where you want to remove implants from people, like if they’ve had screws and plates, but what people don’t realize is all these screws and plates come in different shapes and sizes. There’s a hex driver, a star driver, you know, lots of different things. Sometimes a screw head can get stripped. So you need a special extraction device, all that kind of stuff.

To buy that equipment would cost on like 20,000 pounds, right? Up front. And to do the business case, they’d be like, oh my god, 20,000 pounds, where are we going to get 20,000 pounds from? Oh, you need to do the business case. Oh, we’re not sure about the business case. You need to come to the meeting, you need to present it, you need to pitch it, you need to do all this. I did it. Oh, we don’t have the money for it. It’s a great idea. One day we might have it, but no, not right now. I went, OK, well, I need to loan in the equipment and that’s 5000 pounds. And I’m loaning it in six times a year. That’s 30,000 pounds.

If you just gave me this set now, we’d save 10,000 in the year. Yeah. But they wouldn’t do that. They would rather just loan it in. What the frack is that all about? Okay. So what, what you quite rightly are pointing out is the lack of joined up thinking and the lack of joined up finance. What is going on there? And they talked about two different budgets. Yeah. What the frack? So you’ve got, you’ve got capital budgets and revenue budgets.

Ahmad (21:13.174)
So you’ve got, so capital is one off spending. Yeah. So it might also be called non recurrent money. And then you’ve got revenue budgets. So that’s recurrent money. So it’s probably if we use the example of a household budget. So, you know, you’re an orthopedic surgeon, you’re getting X, you’re getting paid. Let’s say you’re salaried and you’re actually, you know, you’re getting a regular income. So that’s your revenue budget. That’s your recurrent money.

But every three months you get a profit, you get a bonus, you know, or you might attend a conference and win a prize or something. So you get some, every now and again, you get some non-recurrent money that comes in. Now, if you were to go, if you were to say to your bank manager, well, actually I’m earning twice my salary. Can I have a bigger mortgage? Your bank manager would say, well, what’s your salary? I’m not interested in these bonuses and things like that because that’s…

We can’t rely on that. I know you get them most of the time, but they may stop. And so that’s what’s going on is the finance departments have got money that they are sure they’re going to get next year and money that they’re not sure they’re going to get next year. And what the government does is it keeps the whole system teetering on the brink of collapse by making the recurrent money scarce. And it keeps putting in Injections. Injections of

Here’s a grant for a year. So Mr. Chief Executive in your hospital, here’s 10, 20, 30% of your money, but it may not be here next year. So don’t go spend it, you know, rashly. You know, that Dr. Malik, you know, just be careful because he’s got, you know, he’s got big designs on some expensive equipment. So that’s the purveying culture, if you like, in finance teams is extreme caution.

and accountants are like this. No, but that caution doesn’t make sense because I showed them several ways where we could save money over the course of a year with a little injection upfront of money, but they chose a system, a path that would lose them money. So I think you’re into a different related issue. And then that to me was like, if they take money away from that, that means their budget would go down and they would not want that. They would be like, oh no, we’d rather just keep it. Another thing as well is I think,

Ahmad (23:35.81)
the business cases and everything took up time and they would rather just put it onto this rolling, tracking. So I think there’s a few things going on. One is the ability to make decisions. So I think private sector will understand this very clearly. A business that makes decisions will be successful. It doesn’t matter if you make the wrong decisions occasionally because you’ll learn from them. But if you don’t make decisions, if you’re incapable of making decisions, your business will fail.

And the NHS and most healthcare bureaucracies are extremely bad at making decisions because of the just number of people involved. So I think there’s something about too many layers, too many layers, too many committees, exactly. And then I think you’ve got the perennial management versus clinical, you know, hang on, there’s this very intelligent doctor coming into our space in our meeting, trying to tell us what to do. Well, we are having it because we’re in charge.

we are the management, so we have to uphold the strength of our discipline against those pesky doctors, because if the doctors take control of the hospital, we’re gone, you know? And there’s a bit of self-protectionism in there, and it works both ways, so. Oh, God, it definitely works both ways. I had this guy, this orthopedic consultant, come in and see me, and, you know, within the first year of me being appointed, and he goes, oh, this is an amid.

What are you doing? I’m like, what do you mean? Why are you working so hard? Cutting down your waiting list? You know, why are you doing that? You hardworking doctor. What’s your problem? Parallel lists? What I used to do was, this sounds ridiculous, but I realized that the downtime was crazy. Even though I was mopping between the cases, the op notes were typed up, everything, the time it would take to send for a patient and have the patient anesthetized and back in the theater, it was an hour.

So I thought, you know what? I can operate on one patient, leave it to the junior doctor to close and bandage up. I will walk into the next door theater and start the operation there. By the time I finish, they’ll have the next patient back ready for me to start. And so what I’d started doing was parallel lists. So instead of doing four or five operations in a day, I was doing like 10. I go from one to the…

Ahmad (26:07.695)
Guess what? My waiting list was a boop,

Ahmad (26:26.03)
we’ll pay you double your NHS rate if you can, because the beast is on our back. The minister is saying the waiting list of your hospital is five months longer than it should be. So we’ve got to get it down in two weeks. 100%. Yeah. So what’s your price on that? How much, how much, and then you’ve got them. Yeah. So your senior colleague knows this, but there you are undermining his income. Yeah. So he comes to me and goes, you’re doing this all wrong.

You build up a waiting list and you hold it as leverage over the managers. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then you take some of it to the private sector and everyone’s a winner. And I was like…

Ahmad (27:10.615)
I was just this young, bright eyed, happy, work hard, fix the system, help people. That’s all I wanted to do. And here I am, a senior consultant telling me off for doing what I thought was the right thing. Yeah. And probably around the same time. So when I, three months into my NHS career in 2002, I was taken aside by one of the senior executives like Graham, what are you doing?

What do you mean what I’m doing? Well, you’re doing loads of amazing work. You’re doing all these projects and you’re saving money and you’re showing us all up. Wait. Oh yeah. So this is in the, you say what you’re got in the clinical sphere, or I’ve got the same in the management sphere. It’s like, dude, will you slow down? Because just don’t work so hard. Don’t be so effective because you’re making it look like we’re not working. Well, maybe they work. Yeah.

Ahmad (28:08.318)
Oh dude, what the frack. And it’s so sad, I mean we’re laughing, but people think the healthcare system is there for the people. But people have to understand, I think the system is there primarily for itself. Yeah. And that’s in the broadest sense. It’s the drug companies, it’s the careers, it’s the… All the services that look after a building, a hospital building is a very expensive place to build and run. There’s contracts galore going out.

of, you know, from the finance office, you know, that’s the system. It’s paying all of those. The problem is we’re in an era where there’s too many net consumers and not enough producers. So what I mean by that is like, there’s too many people working.

in a system where they are dependent on tax revenue and not people working who are tax generators. Does that make sense? Most people now, I think in the economy, are funded through the state system, state enterprise, state. And where does the state get the money from? The people’s tax. Whose tax? The private industry, the private entrepreneurs, the individuals who are working. And so the actual…

people who produce and make, they are funding the lifestyles and the jobs of those who don’t. And we need to stop that. And why? This is all state, the big state. Government gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And the problem is at what point is it gonna get to where, you know what, this parasite is actually bigger than its host. Yeah. Well, it’s centralization, isn’t it? It’s centralized healthcare.

as we’ve come to realise now, I have, and I think many people have, it’s not an efficient way of delivering public health. Individual or population level wellness does not come from centralised medicine. It absolutely doesn’t. But we’ve got, I know many of you guys talked about things like Stockholm Syndrome, and the difficulty is that most people have been brought up to revere doctors, to worship healthcare, to trust.

Ahmad (30:28.194)
drugs to rely on all of these things for their own day-to-day comfort, if not wellness. It’s like, well, I don’t want to address the hard things in my life. So this pill, this operation, this consultation will get me through today. And that’s enough. And I think we all need to have a, if you like, reach our personal breaking point. I know I did in

you know, because working in this system made me ill. I lost my health, my intestinal health, mainly in about 2015, 16. And that’s when I had my second awakening, probably third actually, was the food industry. And I realized everything I was doing, I was following all the, you know, the healthy eating plate, doing what the guy said. We’re gonna come to that in a second. Yeah, I was getting it so wrong. And I realized all that’s back to front as well. So you were gonna come to that in a second. But I think we all need that individually to happen to us in order to be…

willing to consider that what we’re being told might not be correct. Yeah, 100%. But I think you also need to, I don’t know, have some, you do need some awakening. I was thinking about this the other day. You know, I thought I was awake to a lot of things. Geopolitics, since 9-11, soon after that.

and then health around about four or five years ago, and NHS corruption, yeah, definitely four or five years. But you know, it’s been slowly building up to the point where I can’t stay in this anymore. They don’t want me, and if you don’t want me, well, frankly, clearly I don’t belong anymore. But it’s taken a while. Does that mean that the 25 years that I was in the system, I was a bad person? I was deliberately, you know, a willing participant in this evil system? No, of course not. You know?

I was a good person, I just didn’t know any better. And I think there’s a lot of people who are in the system who are like that, who are still like that. Good people who are working, trying their best, but don’t actually know. I think there’s a minority who do know it’s bad and are happy to play the game and profit. They’re just the really bad ones. Then there’s another minority of people who know it’s bad and feel helpless, and they’re the ones that get burnt out and stressed out, and they just know.

Ahmad (32:47.606)
It’s all wrong and they don’t know what to do about it. So I think it’s a mixed bag of people. Absolutely, and I think I say that a lot and I do quite a bit of public speaking and one of the first things I will say is I’m not necessarily being critical of the people in the system, but I am definitely being critical of the system. 100%. You know, I was thinking about something, imagine like going back to that parasitical relationship of the system. Imagine you’ve got a horse and there’s a tick, right?

tick’s tiny, you need a magnifying glass to look at. And that’s why the horse doesn’t even know it’s there and it’s perfectly healthy and it can live. Now imagine that tick is on the back of this horse and it’s the size of a pig, right? Just imagine this ugly blood engorged tick, the size of a pig. That horse is gonna be weighed down. The horse isn’t gonna be galloping anywhere. The horse isn’t gonna be making babies anywhere.

That horse is struggling to just get through life. And the problem is the system, the government is like that now. If we are a human being, we’ve got to take the size of a child on our back. It’s weighing us down. Now, some people don’t know. They just know life is tough. They just think, God, my shoulders are heavy and I’m stripped over. Why is life so hard? Some people know they’ve got a goddamn tick behind their back and they can’t

fracking get rid of it and it’s killing them, stressing them out. Yeah, and some people don’t want to admit they’ve got a tick because it would be embarrassing. Yeah, they don’t want to look in the mirror. And other people believe that the tick is actually part of them. Yeah. It’s what everybody has. They’re messed up. Just normal. They’re really fracking messed up. Yeah. Right, this is the problem that we’re in. Government, centralization, centralized healthcare is that tick. And then unless we all shake this off, this tick.

Someone needs to make a meme of this. We can’t be free. And the problem is, you know, when I say to people, oh, you know what, this is the problem. It’s not just that. The solution is so wonderful. Imagine you didn’t have this tick on you. Imagine you were free. Imagine you were unshackled, unburdened. You’re able to do whatever you like, go wherever you like, not have to pay income tax. No, we don’t need to pay income tax. Don’t need a goddamn passport.

Ahmad (35:14.798)
planning permission. We don’t need government to tell us this is legitimate and we can do this, we can just do whatever we like. How cool would that be? But it’s also extremely scary for people who can’t envisage that world. The people who’ve, for generations, their families have relied on the state, relied on the doctor, relied on the packet of pills. The tick. The tick, you know, so you rely on the tick for your own identity.

It is part of you. So to not have the tick is goddamn scary, isn’t it? And what will life without the tick be like? I don’t know. What are people gonna think of me when I go out without my tick? They’re gonna laugh at me, aren’t they? Yeah. It really is like that. People have just got to the point. And that’s why I think- And actually the tick’s my best friend anyway. My running companion.

But this is the thing, like the thing is like we’ve got so molly cuddled into thinking this horrible entity. I don’t want to call it too gay anymore, it’s making me chuckle too much. But this horrible entity, this beast that is feeding on us is our friend. This is how ludicrous it is. People gen… And the welfare system’s done a great job of that. You know what? It’s there to protect us and look after us. No, it’s not. It’s there to grind you down to…

get rid of any soul in you and innovation and, you know, creativity and hard work and basically all your labors, most of them are just taken away from you to feed this beast. Well the tax burdens apply, is it 88% in the UK now in your lifetime? Something like, you know, approaching 90% of everything that you create and earn will be taken away by the state. Mate, it’s really funny, not even on the back of a tissue paper or anything, just literally in my head I was just doing some…

rough guesstimate calculations and I’ve run it past quite a few clever people. And I’ve said, I think it’s between 90 and 95%. And they’ve all said 100% right. Dude, just think about that. You earn a pound and in your lifetime, you get to keep five pence. Look at you. You should be grateful. You live in this wonderful state controlled, comfortable reality. And what I would say to people is just imagine you could keep the whole

Ahmad (37:37.315)
The whole pound, would that not be a better future? But then you’ve got to make scary decisions, haven’t you? You’ve then got to decide what to do every day. And a lot of people, unfortunately, aren’t ready for that. They’ve been taught that they don’t have the intelligence to make those decisions, so somebody needs to do it for you. And that’s the sad reality of modern living for a lot of people. I think they’re just going about their day being told what to do.

I think it’s also our schooling system. Absolutely. TV, programming, adverts, the whole shebang. I mean, listen, I came across something, we’re gonna talk about your journey in a second, but like the Pharmaceutical Journal, there’s a year long investigation by Deb Cohen and Margaret McCartney raising questions over the influence of the UK government and NHS England on nice approval of cholesterol lowering drugs. Yeah.

And Margaret has written, if you’re interested in the way politicians try and influence the decisions that NICE takes about what drugs to approve and what general practice does and how evidence is regarded, please do read this. And I really liked your comment. The UK government removed the effective regulation of pharmaceutical safety and effectiveness so that ministers can direct

independent quotes, NHS England, NICE and MHRA to follow corporate and commercial interests rather than act in the interest of patients. The UK population is the clinical trial. Now dude, that doesn’t sound to me that the big pharma is crap at selling its wares. Sounds to me, big pharma has got round their problem of how to sell things.

by going directly to the government politicians and getting them to basically sell their drugs for us. Yeah, absolutely right. For them, sorry. So I was, when I- Stop saying yes to everything I say. You have to disagree with me. You’re wrong, it’s worse than that. Okay, there you go. But yeah, that investigation, what that’s shown is that the era of marketing teams needing to know who to talk to in the NHS, that was yesterday’s news.

Ahmad (40:00.21)
I’ve been saying this. Yeah, because those people don’t exist anymore. Those reps, those really cute, sexy reps, they’re gone. They’re gone. Well, the ones that went to speak to clinicians went a long time ago. The ones that were speaking to the bureaucrats like me, they’ve gone now, but they were, because the latest changes in the bureaucracy, they’re ever culling the layers. So the 2012 Health and Social Care Act here in the UK, it removed the…

Ahmad (40:30.191)
the need for the Secretary of State to be responsible for the direct provision of healthcare. So prior to 2013, if a patient didn’t get treated well in a hospital, the Secretary of State had to answer for it in Parliament. So that was removed in 2013. That’s massive. That’s massive. What does that actually mean? So the way it was sold at the time was we’re going to take the tentacles of government off the NHS.

So this was when bureaucrats like me, this is my three years notice of redundancy, I’m gone. And Ahmed is now in charge of the hospital because he’s a good clinician, he’s a good frontline doc. He knows how to make good decisions. Graham, the rubbish manager is gone. So the secretary of state is also gonna get out of the way. So the secretary of state is not gonna tell Ahmed what to do, it’s up to Ahmed now. So for 2013 through to 2022, I think we’ve had that.

clinically led era. So we’ve had GPs in primary care and consultants in secondary care, upstaging the managers in, you know, overtly at least in terms of government policy. That’s what everybody was thinking the system was. But quietly in the background, the opposite has happened. I mean, it’s the 180 degree inversion. Ahmed, the minister’s no longer on your back, but actually the minister’s now talking direct to the drug companies. The minister’s set up,

the back door to NICE and to the MHRA. And by the way, we’ve just Brexited as well. So we don’t need to bother with that pesky European medicines regulatory agency anymore. We’ve got our own UK one, which is all focused on life sciences and promoting the economy. So we’re gonna attract research into the UK. We’re gonna make the UK population the biggest clinical trial in the world, make it easy for new drugs to be launched in the UK. That’s what’s gone on.

And that’s what that report shows is that far from nice being an independent, you know, arms length government body, they’re actually being told what to do. And we had the same, we’ve got the same with the, like the body that makes the decisions about vaccines. There’s the supposed JCVI. So dude, that’s so conflicted. I don’t understand. Like if you’ve got an organization that’s going to be judging and, you know, assessing whether to approve a vaccine or not, why would you have people on there?

Ahmad (42:52.418)
who are in that vaccine industry making and producing and researching it. Nobody else is smart enough to understand what those products are. Do you know what I say to that? I say to that, bull shit. Absolutely, 100%. But on those committees, you’ve got people from the very industry that they’re making decisions about. You’ve got the fox guarding the coop house, the chicken house. Of course. And it goes beyond that, Amid. So in 2021, when the government was here in the UK, was rolling out.

the jab to, you know, in this 100 year event that we’ve just had, when they were rolling it out, the committee, the JCBI was asked to make recommendations on extending it to younger and younger populations and into children. So the committee discussed whether to roll it out to school children. And the committee said no. Yeah, I know, I saw that. And then they changed the membership of the committee.

Is that what they did? They did. They, the government reached into the JCBI and lent on a few of the board members or the committee members. And I think there was a couple that wouldn’t bend. So they were exited and some of the ones that would bend did bend. And then the vote, they’d had another vote a month or so later and it got through. You are fracking kidding me. Go back and look at it. So who was it? Who were the ones that left? I can’t remember the names. It’s, it’s, it’s

It’s obviously knocking on three years ago now, but I distinctly remember at the time, the committee voted no, and then ministers, you could see the ministers getting involved behind the scenes. The language was very unhappy language, shall we say. Ministers are not happy here. Have another go. Feed the beast. So the committee was agitated. Some people left. Supposedly, they chose to leave.

Of course. Like, like I chose to leave. I chose to leave. So, and that’s how things work. It’s when, when you don’t get the decision you want, you have another go, don’t you? With a bit more pressure or some incentives perhaps. You know, cause there’s a merry go round of jobs here, isn’t there? You know, these people, they pop up, they leave, but they pop up somewhere else. Do you know what? I wish I could be prime minister for one day. I’m telling you right now, in one day I would clear out the fracking swamp.

Ahmad (45:17.694)
I kid you not. And if the Americans wanted me to come over for a day as a president, I’d clear their fracking swamp. I swear to God, you know, this whole idea that you need a whole term, I would, I would, no, I would do it very quickly. I would lock up a lot of people in prison for a very long time. Absolutely. And I would. And I think part of the problem also, and you alluded to this earlier on, is the bureaucracy and the civil service. This is a bullshit.

Our politicians are serving the civil servants. Of course. The civil servants are serving themselves and the corporations. Yeah. So here in the UK, our House of Commons is a PLC. It’s a corporation, just like drug companies. The NHS is a PLC, social care is a PLC. I believe even the royal family is a PLC. So PLCs, corporations have a fiduciary duty to make profit for their shareholders.

And guess what folks, we ain’t the shareholders of any of these institutions. So you might think you’ve elected a representative into parliament, but their job is to make profits for their shareholders and that ain’t us. Who’s the shareholder of the House of Commons PLC? I wish I knew. This is where, you know, I’ve- Are you serious? Yeah. House of Commons is the PLC? If you go into a company’s house and have a look, the last time I searched, they come up.

The Conservative Party, obviously, is a PLC, the Labour Party. Wow. Is it still there? I don’t know, I can’t find it. Parliament House Limited. Yeah, there you go. Is that it?

I think the House of Lords and the House of Commons are separate PLCs. No, it’s not, it’s not. And they may well be hidden in, I don’t understand how these things work, but like shell companies and things like that, the sort of layers of corporations so you can’t actually see who owns what and who the directors are. It’s just too much, man. This is too much. This is just going down. Too many fracking rabbit. That’s it.

Ahmad (47:31.446)
So I’ve come to that conclusion myself because you can go very deep and very dark. And it’s, you know, I went through my own stages like you have, I got angry first of all. And then I got very scared because I thought, wow, this is so big. They’ve got us, it’s checkmate, they’ve got us. But I don’t feel that anymore. I feel like they’ve overreached. I feel like that because we are talking about these realities because we can see them and many people are now, what this shows is that they’ve revealed their hand.

that their plan of control is actually not working in the way they originally envisioned it to work. And this is a plan that’s been going on for centuries, if not millennia. And in their final attempts to control us all, they’re making mistakes, and they’re making them repeatedly, and they’re making them very visibly, and they’re having to invent coping mechanisms which have become visible to us. And this is my system.

guy waking up. This is what allowed me to wake up was like, hang on, this doesn’t add up. I can’t see what you’re telling me. It doesn’t exist. Something else exists. So hold on. So let’s go back then to your little wee journey. So you started working for Big Pharma. I spent three years. I was a private consultant. So I worked for a small consultancy firm. And I was like hired out on a daily basis to drug companies.

So I would go out there, we’d have an exploratory meeting, we’d identify a company that might be struggling with a new drug, we’d go and have a meeting with them. Oh, we can help you, we can transform your prospects. And we won contracts to provide services, be it training or creating marketing material, that sort of thing. Or just advising the board members. And I guess there must be some, I mean, that’s the problem as well. You don’t wanna just label all them bad. I mean, there must be some pharmaceutical companies doing some good work, small ones.

you know, making antibiotics, you know, whatever, you know, doing some good work. Um, yeah, they weren’t all bad. No, but I, um, I talk a lot now about the baby in the bath water, you know, the, so the allopathic system is a baby in a bath. Um, I think the thing I’ve come to realize is it’s actually quite a small baby and the bath water is very big, very deep and it’s very polluted. Yes. And what I’m putting my energies into now I made is,

Ahmad (49:57.926)
identifying the baby. And that includes the good clinicians in the system who want to cooperate and start to do something different as an alternative. And maybe the alternative is actually the original. We’re just going back to it’s back to the future. I mean, the thing is like, like part of that small baby is for example, trauma. You know, if you’re in a car accident, you’ve shattered your femur and you’re hosing out, it’s an unstable fracture and it means you lying in bed for six months.

while it heals and your muscles waste away and you get pneumonia and pressure sores, having a rod put down that femur is a great operation. Absolutely. And there’s quite a lot of trauma like that. Yeah, well I think a lot of urgent care. So I think if we just describe it very broadly as urgent care, that would include emergency care and trauma care and it might, and it would also include mental health services as well. So the sort of short term acute, what clinicians call acute care.

urgent trauma, emergency care, a lot of that is absolutely necessary. I think within that there’s good and bad, there’s things that are evidence-based and really helpful and there’s things that probably aren’t evidence-based and shouldn’t be done. So I think if we say broadly the urgent care system should be valued and we should keep quite a lot of it, but the chronic care system when it comes to long-term care of

what’s called chronic diseases like diabetes or mental health conditions, cardiovascular diseases, inflammatory conditions like rheumatoid. Autoimmune. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we should all be able to see hopefully now that the modern healthcare system is doing a crap job at trying to deal with that. Mate, it’s also a bit incentivization. So what do I mean by that? So when I, I don’t know if you can validate what I’m saying, but you know, when I was clinical director,

It’s very clear that the hospitals were making money from the chronic diseases. So they were making money by treating hip replacements and knee replacements. They were not making money in the A&E department, the ER department. Absolutely. Acute services were loss making, no money. They didn’t give a damn about them. Money was made by the elective services, elective surgery, blah, blah. And follow-ups. Yeah, so you would be…

Ahmad (52:21.95)
incentivized or maybe even required to keep bringing your patients back. No, no, no. We’re dissent. It was opposite. We had to eventually. Yeah, we had to keep our new to follow up ratio low. And then we’re told not to see our patients. And that came after. So probably my time as a commissioner slightly predates your time as a consultant. But initially, you had complete freedom to bring people back. We could do whatever you like. And then it was like.

No, you can’t. But the thing is, I was not given, I was like, I did my own waiting list and I was the only consultant who was doing that. So what do I mean by that? I had a spreadsheet in my clinic. I would see a patient and you know, some patients were more need than others. Some patients had more priority than others. Some people had no family, had no, were totally independent and they were now losing their independence. They were priority. Then there are some people who will be like, Oh yeah, I need this fixed, but doc, you know what?

you know, I’ve got a wedding, I don’t want to do anything until after the wedding. So I would bump them and say, well, when do you want this operation? They’d be like, yeah, after the summer and six months time. Whereas the person who couldn’t wait, I’d be like, oh, did that one. But what they wanted me to do was see the patient and give everyone a six month appointment because the beast is watching them. Yeah, the beast is watching. And as soon as somebody trips over, say, six months or 18 weeks for a first appointment.

a little red flag appears on the hospital. So the manager comes down to your, um, your secretary and said, um, what can you do about removing that red flag? And oh, well dr Malick says, well, that person doesn’t want it now because they’ve got a wedding coming up and the manager says, well, bring them in now or take them off the way. Yeah. So that, so that’s one of the uses is the patient has decided not to remain on the list. So they go back to the, they go back to the start.

That removes them from the list. The beast is happy, but the patient’s not happy because they’ve now got to wait again. You’re not happy because you’ve been overruled, but the system’s happy. Yeah, that is exactly what happened. So I fought, and the other thing as well is because I was doing the waiting list, planned months in advance when the patient wanted it. Like seriously, people would be like, I’ve got my daughter’s wedding I want to go to. I’ve got a holiday planned. I’ve got a cruise. And you know what?

Ahmad (54:41.046)
Some people will be like, well, they clearly didn’t need the operation that much. Listen, some of these people have saved up a lot of money and this is a big thing that they’ve booked and planned and they don’t know when their appointment is going to come through to see me. They don’t know. They’re not going to hold on, like freeze their life, just waiting for me. And when the appointment will come through, they’re getting on with life. So they’ve booked these big things in their life. Bar mitzvahs, you name it, whatever. So when I booked a date with my patient.

that was then fixed. They’d be like, right, I’m not gonna book anything after that, Mr. Matt, I will be available, I will be free. So then guess what, when I would, and then I would populate my list, I would be like, right, I can do these two cases, and then another two cases, I’ve got the right mix of equipment, I’ve got this and that. So my list efficiencies were really high, my cancellation rates were really low, but what the managers said were, we were not happy doing this. You’re missing the targets.

you’re missing the targets because you’ve now got people who are waiting 18 weeks and then 16 weeks and oh, you know, and what the funny thing is, once they’ve breached one target they went, Oh, you don’t need to operate on that person anymore. Cause now it’s going to be another six months before they breach another target. So there’s no rush now. And I was like, hold on one second. Last week you wanted me to rush to operate on this person, but now you’re like, now you’re like pushed them out five months. It doesn’t matter now. Yeah, exactly. And it’s all about targets. And I was like, I was going fracking mental.

I was like, you’re not fricking doing this. I’m just going to operate on my patients, please. So I would have this constant Archie pargy and they’re like, you’re the only consultant in the department who’s doing this. Everyone listening isn’t clearly not surprised that I’m in Malik because the only one not doing this because this is I’m in Malik for you. But eventually they took it off me because they said, if you don’t stop and this is, I’m talking about like seven, eight years it took to get to this point, but they’re like, if you don’t let go.

there’s going to be a formal investigation. And I was like, oh, fuck this. We’ll find something on you. Right. But I’ll tell you what happened, cause you’ll love this. A year or two before I gave it up, they had, I think it’s called Atom, something about theater utilization and optimization or something. And so they had this consultancy firm come in to see how they could get everyone else, get optimized efficiency.

Ahmad (57:05.13)
And in front of the whole department, the guy goes, can I have Mr. Malik put his hand up please? And I put my hand up. Mr. Malik, are you a robot? And I was like, no, why? Because your theatre utilization and your last minute cancellation is, you know, you don’t have any, like how do you, what are you doing that everyone else is, I was like, I run my own list.

the intake that everybody’s like, no, no. Like, and I’m like, yeah, I do my own booking and clinic and I do my own lists and, um, and, and yeah, just schedule everything myself. I don’t use the scheduler silence. And did you, did your learnings when they taken up by the consultancy firm and given to the board as the way forward, sorry to ask. You must be fracking joking. So what happened was

They took my scheduling away, they took my little spreadsheet away, and they started, the managers started doing my list. But guess what? Do you know how they did it? You’re not going to believe this. They’d bring up the patients and go, hello, so we’d like to offer you a date for your surgery. Can you come in next week, please? And the patient would be like, oh, I’m really glad you’ve offered me a date, but I can’t come in next week. I haven’t planned anything. I need to get care. I’ve got pets.

my daughter’s wedding’s next week. You know, like, can’t I, can’t I come in three weeks time or four weeks time? No, you have to come next week or we take you off the list. I can’t come next week. Okay, fine. You’re off the list. Goodbye. That was what was wrong. And then what was happening was I would turn up, I would turn up to my list and it be like, Oh Mr. Mike, there’s been two cancellations. So you’re, you know, we’ve got nothing in the afternoon. I’m like, hold on. What the frack? Why? Oh well, you know, the patients

Blah, blah, blah. They said yes a week ago, but they changed their mind today. They changed their mind. They were forced, they’re coerced into just taking the list. Then they went away and thought about it, tried to get help, tried to get something, you know, accommodations, whatever. No one was there to help them. They’ve canceled the last minute. So my theater utilization went down there. Guess what? After six months, I got a manager coming up to see me and going, Mr. Maddly, we’ve been looking at your theater utilization. You were running a really good theater optimization, but-

Ahmad (59:31.53)
something’s happened in the last six months and your utilization is really bad right now. I’m like, what, like as bad as everyone else? Yeah. Like, do you need any help with anything? Is there a problem? I’m like, no, it’s not me. You took my scheduling away. You took my list away. And they didn’t know. Because a new manager. I’m not surprised. Because this is the new green wet behind the ears, new manager. Yeah. Hasn’t yet worked out how things really operate. Yeah.

And they’ve just come to me because they think I’m doing something wrong or something’s wrong with me. And I’m like, no, you should go talk to your colleagues. Yeah. Did you see how mental the system is? It is. And I mean, I could tell you, I mean, I’ve seen firsthand, you know, in hospitals where I’ve worked, you know, I’ve been the commissioner for the hospital. I’ve seen good consultants like yourself who are surrounded in their department by consultants who are gaming.

you know, and extending their own private lists. Totally. And these good consultants stand up, and this is in lots of different specialties in different hospitals, the good ones stand up and they get absolutely crucified. Totally. And they’ve even gone, I’ve seen consultants who’ve gone to the CQC and raised, they’ve whistle blown and they get further crucified. Oh wow. Yeah, and their case is shut down, it’s hidden, and the managers that

that the senior board level people who’ve overseen the shutting downs of whistleblowers are promoted. I’ve seen it. Of course they are. What the?

Ahmad (01:01:14.706)
Yeah, yeah. I’ve been, I was once, I was trying to change the, one of the pathways in one of the areas where I worked. And I was, I eventually did do it. And do you know what we, in a very large specialty, respiratory, we halved the number of non-elective admissions from a 12 month standing start. We halved it. Wow. Prior to that program being,

Authorized it took me three years to get it authorized in that area, but prior to it being authorized. I was hauled in by my bosses Who’d been asked by the? hospital chief exec To shut Graham up. Oh wow that this chap wants to take money off my hospital Can you make him stop basically and I said no, I’m not gonna stop Because I’m you know

I’m doing the right thing for patients, which is stopping them progressing to serious acute disease. And we’re going to do that by preventing, you know, we’re going to upscale community services, physios and doctors and nurses in the community. And we’re going to use the money that we saved from the hospital. And it took three years. We got it done. We implemented it. The senior clinicians in respiratory backed us and worked with it, including the hospital consultants. They backed doing the right thing. Because what we also managed to do.

was to get them new work out in the community, teaching the doctors. And we got them new work doing specialist work. So the hospital was able to, rather than sending people, you know, 50 miles away to the specialist respiratory hospital, they were able to offer that service in their local hospital. So what we found was a win-win-win. We protected the consultants. We got them in fact doing more interesting work. And the patients won. The money was saved. Happy days. But it took me three years.

And that was after probably 15 years of learning how not to do it and being frustrated and told no. And that’s how hard it is to change things in the interest of patients and do the right thing. 100%. Dude, can I ask you a question? Really, really, really important question. Listen, do you need to go for a wee-wee? No, I’ve got a really large bladder. Do you need to go for a wee-wee? I need to go for a wee-wee. Can we pause so I can go for a wee-wee? Of course. All right. So you’ve got a big, baggy bladder. I have, yeah.

Ahmad (01:03:37.457)
I need to go.

Ahmad (00:01.646)
I feel so comfortable now. I’m so much happier. I’m so glad. Right. So you worked for this private company, big farmers, yeah. Bidding. Then you left. So I left and I, um, cause I was commuting. I live in the north of England and I was commuting on the train down to London. I was, you know, the circuit, all the, all the drug companies around the M 25 basically. So I was living away from home. I’m now in my

early 50s and it’s getting tough, you know, just to keep doing it physically. So I got the opportunity to move back into the NHS, you know, there’s something I didn’t think I would do, but I didn’t want to go and be a high street chemist, pharmacist, you know, filling prescriptions. I got the opportunity to go back into the NHS, but in not in a board role, not in a senior manager role, but in a middle manager role. And I was basically the head of medicines management in a, in a clinical commissioning group, a CCG.

So I was, if you like, the local drug dealer. So I was responsible for the GP budget and also as a commissioner of the hospital drug budget. So in total it was about a hundred million pounds. So I did that for about three years. You know, I was, you know, it was okay. This was a, this was a time that I actually managed to change the respiratory pathway as well. So not only was I looking after the drug budget, I mean, they hired me on a sort of three-day week contract and within a month they said, dude, can you work a bit more?

because we need a commissioner. So I was doing a bit of commissioning on the side as well. Tried to change the diabetes pathway, but didn’t work. Nobody wants to change the diabetes pathway. To this day, that hasn’t changed. So that lasted three years. And then I was approached by one of the doctors in the area, one of the GPs, to come and run their practice. So I went and joined Frontline GP practice, became a partner in that practice.

So I was invested in it. I was a co-owner along with the GPs. That was all going quite well. I was enjoying it. We’re making a difference. And then 2020 arrived and all started getting very difficult indeed. I don’t know if you want me to go for it. So, so I, in my time as a senior board level director in the NHS, I was trained as what’s called a gold commander. So this is where, you know, when the hundred year pandemic arrives,

Ahmad (02:24.706)
you’re one of the people that gets sent to the bunker that’s running the country or running your region. So I was- Gold commander? A gold commander, big, lots of epaulettes on the shoulder, big stripes, yeah. So you take it in turns essentially, when there’s a national emergency, and it may be a terrorist incident, it may be a huge flood and storm, you know, but when the services go down in an area or at risk for whatever reason, you know, gold command is set up. It may be a major traffic incident.

on, you know, and there’s all hospitals are overwhelmed. We need every orthopedic surgeon going because there’s 200 broken legs coming in, you know, that kind of thing. So goal command is set up and I’d be one of those people in the bunker along with the police and the military and who knows else from the government. So February, 2020, I’m on holiday. I’m having a nice time in the North of Scotland in the snow, up a mountain, and I turn on the telly and there’s Lombardy and Turin and New York.

on the telly and then it was then it hit me that I realized this was coming to my door and I would go back to work on Monday and I would have to manage my practice and my population of 25,000 patients through the one in hundred year pandemic. My program kicked in. I was properly scared. I believed it. I went to work. I briefed everybody, made a few people cry and got ready to…

Seriously, I was properly hooked. And I worked out based on the Lombardy and New York data, along with some colleagues, we worked out that for our 25,000 patients, we’d probably lose 500 in the first wave. And we might lose three or four doctors in the first wave as well. And I might die. Yeah, it was that serious. So early March, I believe that’s what was happening. I was watching Boris and Chris Witte and Patrick Vallance.

So you didn’t come across the Princess Diamond? Yeah, I knew about the Diamond Princess. I’d seen that and it got a lot of publicity. Then it kind of went very quiet, didn’t it? You didn’t see the data from that? I saw it. Yeah, so literally by the middle of March, by the first week of lockdown, the Diamond Princess data and my own local practice data or my own hospital data was shouting to me, this isn’t right. Something doesn’t add up here, Graham.

Ahmad (04:44.118)
So we’d had outbreaks in our care homes. We’d had supposed COVID break out in several of our care homes. We’d put in place what’s called the just in case drugs, which is the morphine and the medasolam and other drugs when people are about to die. Whoa, whoa, stop, stop. So these just in case, so when did this all come into play?

So the night where you given guidelines. And so when did this these guidelines come along? So this was all early March. So lots of things changed nationally in early March. So the death certification rules were changed. The cremation rules were changed. The guidelines. So nice. I can’t remember the guidelines. Is this pre lockdown? Just before lockdown. So just before lockdown. Talk me through everything that changed. OK, so I think the key things that changed were so the nice guideline, I think is it.

163, that number might not be right, but it’s changed subsequently. They’ve removed that original guidelines. This is the guideline for people who have COVID to help them die more comfortably. A good death. Like how? So this is morphine, medazolam and other sedatives. Did your pharmacist, what does that stuff do to you? Well, obviously it…

reduces your breathing, it renders you unconscious, first of all, and then there’s drugs to reduce your anxiety before that. So there’s five drugs that are used that are commonly called the just in case drugs. So for years these have been used for cancer patients or maybe somebody with COPD, respiratory disease, that are just, you know, they’re struggling to breathe. So they get very distressed just before they die. So there’s…

drugs to help them feel less anxious about not being able to breathe, so drugs to reduce their pain, and ultimately drugs to relax them, and midazolam, as we know, takes away your consciousness. All right, so hold on. So if you are in a nursing home and you got a bit of dementia, or you got a cold, or a bit of a flu, and you give these medications, what’s it gonna do to you? It’s going to progress you rapidly towards your final days.

Ahmad (07:00.47)
because it’s expected. So this is, so you’ve got to remember the context at the time was that this is, well, the national narrative, maybe not the context, the national narrative was this is a new novel disease. We don’t have any drugs to treat it. And we now know all this is false, but what was being told to clinicians at the time was this is a new novel disease. We don’t have any drugs that work. The only right,

care that you can administer for these patients is to ease their passing. Because this is the time when people were being put on ventilators and were expiring rapidly around the world. You know we were all seeing it on our TV. So what actually happened in my area was that several residents in care homes were diagnosed, this is pre PCR testing, they were diagnosed

on the, um, the only evidence was the care home manager rang up and said, you know, Mary, Mary Smith’s got a cough and she’s looking not a normal self. So the doctor on the phone, cause remember we’re all working remotely now. So the doctor on the phone says probably COVID, uh, right. Send the Justin case drugs in. What the fracking hell? Yeah. We killed people. We did. Um, so I watched while this happened and I expected

as I said, 500 people in the first wave to die. But what actually happened was nobody died. There was no difference in our rates of death. In fact, we had outbreak after outbreak in our care homes and we expected it to spread like wildfire and there to be lots of coffins coming out. But the reason why it didn’t was because basically there was no novel virus. And this is where I disagree with Robert Malone. He was on my podcast saying it was novel. I’m like, really?

I don’t think so. I don’t think so. Nothing novel about it. Why did most people get it and recover if it was so novel? And then the other thing is that’s why I pick on the word pandemic. Like to me, the idea of a pandemic, I don’t give a frack what anyone’s definition is. My definition of a pandemic is a deadly contagion spreading wildfire across the world, killing and maiming millions of people. That’s a pandemic. And if you ask the average person on the street, they’d be like, Oh yeah. Yeah. Have you said to someone,

Ahmad (09:25.082)
Is the pandemic what the who decides is a pandemic? No, but it never was, was it? So Robert Malone was speaking factually because what he was being very careful to say was the who declared a pandemic, therefore there was a pandemic. What I would say to Robert then is don’t talk to me like a fracking lawyer. Yeah, exactly. You’re not a fracking lawyer, are you? Talk to me like a mate, fellow doctor and just say, yeah, bullshit’s not a pandemic. They can call it a pandemic. What was it?

wasn’t a real fracking pandemic. Don’t give me a legal answer. Yeah, correct. So we know, we can look back at the stats, the UK government stats for 2020 show an unremarkable year in terms of deaths. If you look at the 2020 and the previous 30 years, jumble them all up. I defy anybody to pick out 2020. You can’t do it because it’s the 13th deadliest year out of 30.

What a horrendous pandemic year that was. What a shitty pathetic excuse of a pandemic. So I had the care home outbreaks, nothing happened. It was a nothing burger. I had people in their 70s, 80s, 90s, patients being admitted to the respiratory COVID ward in my hospital, a week later being discharged perfectly well. And I thought, so by lock, by probably two or three days before the first lockdown, I smelt a big rat. Yeah, me too, man.

And that’s when I knew that we’d been lied to by government. And what absolutely cemented it for me was when I saw Matt Hancock in the House of Commons deny there was a link to vitamin D and COVID survival. And he said in the House of Commons that the government had commissioned research into vitamin D effectiveness in COVID and there was no link. And the next day he had to go back and…

give a statement to Parliament and correct Hansard because he’s a misled Parliament. We haven’t done any research and basic but there is no data and we all know absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence. We all know clinically we all know that vitamin D levels in your blood this is you know whether you treat somebody or not but the vitamin D level in your blood prior to you getting ill is absolutely hugely important for your survival through.

Ahmad (11:38.486)
whatever you’re going to get, but particularly for a respiratory illness. And studies show this subsequently. I think there was a, there was a, a well-shared study. I think it’s in Spain where they studied the blood levels of vitamin D for people being admitted to COVID ward. And essentially if their levels were, I forget the units now 75. So I think the NHS is, is happy with 50. If your level’s 50 in your blood, happy days. It’s enough. It’s not really enough.

but 75, 100, 150 is better. But they said that anybody who had a blood level over 80, I think it was 75 actually, over 75 they had an 80% chance of living. If their blood level was below 75, they had an 80% chance of dying. And I knew then that the treatments that would work for whatever COVID was, but treatments that were evidence-based, were simple and cheap, were being systematically withheld and repressed.

from patients and any clinician who dared speak those words, hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, vitamin D, vitamin C, you know, intravenous vitamin C, you know, the Chinese were using it. We knew the Chinese were using it in March, April, 2020. I approached my local hospital, you know, maybe we should try this. Absolutely not. Because to put your head above that parapet as a clinician meant black, black balling. You were gonna be seriously.

taken out. So why? Why? Because if you’re going to subsequently give the emergency use authorization for and I hesitate to call it a vaccine, but let’s say you have an intervention that you need to bypass the normal regulatory approval and you need so it has to go through emergency use authorization. We’ve never had this before. No, we’ve never had emergency use authorization.

Fracking anything. Because we’ve always had treatments and we’ve never had novel diseases. So we’ve got a novel disease. It was declared a novel disease. We have nothing that works according to the government. Bullshit. And so therefore, because those two criteria are met, legally we can emergency use authorize this jab. Fracking bullshit. And it’s still to this day, emergency use authorized. They haven’t gone back and done it properly.

Ahmad (13:57.71)
it properly. And there’s, that’s a whole nother rabbit hole. But why the doctors? I mean, I can America, they’re pushing this EUA. Were we, were we in the same kind of jurisdiction, same territory? Like you said, doctors would be blackballed. Why here? Who would be blackballing? What would happen? Well, just as you were, you were holed up for managing your own waiting list, you know, if, if you started prescribing, I’ve a mectin hydrochloroquine, vitamin D, intravenous vitamin C.

you’d find somebody’s heavy hand on your shoulder very quickly. I mean, do you need to stop doing this? Now hold on one second, mate. Listen, I like you. I like you, but Graham, you’re making a big mistake right now. Okay, tell me, tell me where I’m going wrong. Cause I love challenge. You’re slightly pissing me off. You’re giving me the impression that you’re a critical of the NHS. Sorry. I need to go back to church and repent and pray at the altar, sorry.

of the holy vaccine. Yeah. Pray in front of the holy vaccine. Absolutely. Dude, like we can’t question the NHS. The NHS is a religion. It’s a cult. We need to worship it. It cannot do any wrong. And the only wrong that’s done is that we don’t pay enough money. Yeah. All right. Yeah. But you see, I think this is where lies the problem that people have this idea that just like big government, big NHS is this big fluffy teddy bear.

that we just meant to cuddle, cuddle teddy bear. And it’s there to love us and we’re meant to protect it. When actually what it’s done is any doctor who wants to step out of the line and do the right thing or do things slightly differently because of what their conscious is telling them, what does the system do to them? Tell me. What do you- Deletes them. Yeah. Tell me how that, anyone listening to this show, tell me how, defend that system please.

Defend the NHS, which is a structure, a beast, that destroys doctors or any clinician who strays out of the path that has been dictated. So you force me into a position that I don’t like to take. So, but the analogy I would use is the emperor’s got no clothes. So your eyes are telling you the emperor’s got no clothes. But if you speak it, if you write it down,

Ahmad (16:23.89)
somebody who doesn’t have eyes or has got blinkers on will also know the emperor’s gone. That can’t be allowed to happen. We cannot bring the reputation of the fabled cuddly NHS into question. We cannot embarrass the minister. We cannot put the prime minister in a difficult position by showing evidence of something that they’re saying isn’t true. So you can’t call the narrative into question.

Even if, and there’s lots of famous quotes we can use over the years, but, you know, um, you know, George Orwell, you know, came up with many of them. You know, we can, we can go back to Aldous Huxley and that, and, you know, that a lot of these guys have come up with really good quotes, but the, it all boils down to the state controls the narrative. And if, and if a lie is spoken a hundred times, it passes into truth, especially the bigger the lie.

The bigger the lie, the more impossible it is to be not true, to be true. And this is what I was faced with. I was saying to my GPs, look, the government is saying this in our own practice with our own, I could interrogate our own clinical system and I could see by sort of June, July 2020, I could see that the people who were dying were cancer patients, mental health patients. People run over by car. Well, I’m not talking about the COVID.

Well, yes, there were people who were labeled COVID who had nothing wrong with them respiratory wise, but they swabbed the dead body and they said, well, that guy with a bullet hole, he had a COVID. So the reason he didn’t dodge the bullet is because of COVID. So yeah. But what I could see absolutely in my practice was that the people who were dying were the vulnerable, frail people with other diseases that were being denied medicine, care.

because we shut the system down. We said to the NHS, to the public, we need to protect the NHS, you need to stay away from hospitals. And we know now, the government’s own data shows that hospitals were 60% full. At the beginning of the lockdown and into the summer, they were 60% full. The ventilator, the ventilated beds were not full. All these nightingale hospitals that they set up were hardly ever used. They were all just window dressing and show.

Ahmad (18:47.278)
So I’d got data, I’d got government data that I was showing my GPs. I could see that there was a spike in deaths and there was a spike in respiratory deaths in March, April, 2020. But by the beginning of May, everything was back to normal. May, June, July, August, September, everything was absolutely normal. In fact, respiratory deaths were below normal. So here we were in the middle of respiratory pandemic. The government’s talking about going to lockdown two.

This is sort of October, 2020, and I’m getting really agitated now in my practice. I’m saying, guys, you know, docs, if we go into lockdown to, if we, if we follow this dicta, we’re going to kill people. We’re going to, we’re going to harm our patients. Oh, sure. I’m not protecting anybody. And I called it the, the pursuit of zero COVID because that was the mentality. It was, we have to have no COVID deaths. Yeah. But, but I’m saying, but doc. If you.

If you do everything possible to make sure we have no COVID deaths, I’m going to have a hundred other deaths. Yeah, right. Doesn’t matter. This is feed the beast time again. We need to have no COVID deaths. Yeah, but what about those hundreds? No, it don’t matter. The cognitive dissonance was just off the charts. And in the end, I was asked to be quiet in my own practice. All I was doing was replaying the government’s own data to my staff and to my fellow clinicians. And

In private, one to one, a lot of them, well, some of them would agree with me and say, Graham, we know you’re right. In a group, they would argue against me and nobody would defend me in a group. So I was isolated. I was, this is, you know, you’ve had this experience as well. You know, it’s, you become the problem. Yeah. You shoot the messenger, don’t you? Yeah. And the messenger starts to think that they’re going mad. So I generally thought, well, I’m obviously going mad.

Yeah. And you have all those self doubts and you question everything. Do you? Every day. Yeah. Every day. And then you realize, well, however it comes to you, you realize you’re not mad. But the 2020 progressed and we got to the end of 2020 and the jabs appeared on the horizon. And like many people, I mean, initially we had all GP practices were given the option of having a running a vaccine center. So we had to vote. I voted no.

Ahmad (21:10.366)
A majority of my partners voted no, based on a number of factors, some of which were safety and efficacy and just general disruption to us, to be honest. And then some partners forced a revote and the second vote was yes. So I was- Did money have anything to do with it? That was part of it. Yeah. How much money were they looking at making in that year? So per job, per job it was £6.28.

I thought it was more than that. I thought it was like £10, £15. It was, well, remember it’s two doses. So I think it worked out £12.56 per patient who walked through the door. If it was a home visit patient, you got an extra £10. If it was a care home patient, you got an extra £30. Wow. That was at the beginning in early 21. That was the payment for GP practices. So what were they forecasting the practice to make? And the jabbing? We’re into five figures. Like roughly? We’re over £100,000 of income.

for the practice. But what would that be? What did that actually mean as a practice? Like that kind of money, is that like a thing or is that like a huge thing? I mean, in a business that’s, I mean, it’s probably more than that for the whole year, but it’s a significant, you’re looking at a sort of five to 10% increase in income just from the job. There’s a lot of costs to it. So that’s not all profit by any means. There’s a lot of costs because this is paying clinicians.

in evenings and weekends to come and work. You know, there’s a lot of management time needs to go into it, but there is a significant profit in there as well. Yeah, but I know people who were in the jabbing centers who’ve told me they did like a couple of hundred jabs in a day. Yeah, easily. So in terms of money, that sounds like easy money. Yeah. Like I’m sure it’s like three, 400 in a day they were talking about. Like literally they were walking in. Yeah.

That’s what happened to me. It was like, there was no informed consent. There was no chat. It was bang, in my arm. Yeah. I mean, we had a vaccine center. I mean, I designed it. I opened it. I was the accountable manager. To this day, I’ll say publicly now, I wish to apologize for any harm I’ve done. I have any people who’ve incurred harm in any way from my actions as a…

Ahmad (23:30.894)
partner and a manager in a vaccine center. It wasn’t something I wanted to do. I wanted to get out of it, but I found myself in a position I couldn’t get out of it. I tried to change it from the inside and when I realized I couldn’t change it, I walked away. And that was two and a half years ago now. Oh shit. But I knew in December, 2020, because I participated in lots of national meetings. I was on lots of planning meetings with, you know.

all the big national people who were briefing us. And the reason I voted no, Ahmed, was I knew this was eventually use authorized. I knew it was a product with no clinical trial evidence. And a lot of the animal testing studies had not been done. I knew it was a product where we didn’t know what the ingredients were. I knew it was using an experimental platform of lipid nanoparticles, and it was supposedly going to change people’s DNA.

in order that they express the most toxic part of this novel virus. Well, what the fuck? And as a pharmacist, as a clinician, the logic of using that as a therapy made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. So I said, we’re going to have a whole mountain of autoimmune diseases. If you force somebody’s body, their own cells, to make the very toxic thing that we’re all scared of, then…

that person’s immune system is going to take out those cells. And we now know this is what’s happening, be they bone marrow cells, brain cells, ovary testes, cardiac cells, this is what’s happening to people who’ve had these jabs. So I knew that, and this is what I argued when I voted no. And how can you give informed consent to anyone? Well, I’m glad you raised that, because in December 2020, initially, UK government, we were being briefed to…

plan for informed consent. So probably about second week in December, 2020, I costed out how much it would cost to run an informed consent process. So this is when we’re all, we’ve got to distance everybody by two meters. We’re all wearing masks, we’re all running around scared of each other. We only had a room of a certain size. We worked out we could admit 20 people at a time into a room.

Ahmad (25:55.162)
sit them down two minutes apart and a GP would spend about 20 minutes briefing them on okay what is this product, what’s in it, what are the risks, what are the side effects, what don’t we know, how might it work, you know what you know what can you expect, what to look out for. Informed consent, there was a four-page document created by a group of doctors in the UK which was fully referenced and I had ready on my laptop to print out and give to patients so they would sign it.

We worked out how much that process would cost and we worked out that to run that process and do the jabbing, we probably wouldn’t make any profit at all from the fee that was being paid. So two weeks later, before Christmas 2020, the government changed the mind and said, we’re not doing informed consent. I don’t know why that changed, but it definitely changed. And we were then told to implement implied consent such that if somebody walks through, as you did,

I mean, if you walk through the vaccine center door, you approach the clinician with the syringe in their hand and you roll up your sleeve, you have consented. That’s the model we were told to implement. Why did it change? I wish I knew. I really wish I knew. Do you have any evidence to show that was changed? I have lots of regrets. One of them is that I didn’t stick a pen drive in my work computer and just take everything on there.

Because when I walked away in October 21, I handed my laptop back. And a lot of very incriminating evidence was in that laptop. And I don’t have a lot of those documents anymore. I wish I did. But certainly as a vaccine center, we were being prepared to use informed consent.

We discussed it as a partnership. We argued about the model. Do we really need a doctor to do it? Yes, we do. Can’t we squeeze more than 20 in? No, we can’t. Okay, so it’s 20. 20 in, next 20 in, next 20 in. And it was shuttle them in. So they’re out of the briefing room, into the jabbing room. Quick, quick, quick. So, and also you don’t make any money anymore. So basically, if you do informed consent and do things properly, there goes all your profit.

Ahmad (28:22.794)
So the fee, so I’m not, I don’t believe that was changed. I don’t believe it was the finance. I don’t think there was a, like the BMA managed to argue successfully that doctors wouldn’t make any profit, therefore the government changed their mind. I think the decision was on high for other reasons that we’re not doing informed consent, we’re gonna go for implied consent. It was a fairly quick decision. Normally, if these things were at all contentious, they would take.

months. It was a matter of days, certainly less than two weeks that discussion was being had with us in the front line and then changed.

Okay. I need to ask you another thing about the jabbing business, the jabbing center. What was happening about the cooling of the vaccines and remember we were told they needed to be minus whatever. Was that true? Was that real? Yeah. Well, the, we were told that, so the, um, AstraZeneca vaccine here in the UK, the AstraZeneca was a more, I’d say slightly conventional in that it was a DNA vaccine still.

very different to previous generations of vaccines. Exactly. That was a fridge product. So that was, if you like, a standard fridge line. It would arrive chilled and we had to keep it in a fridge and protect the cold chain as it’s called. The Pfizer vaccine and subsequently the Moderna vaccine sort of six months later, they were, we were told they were being stored nationally, who knows where, some bunker somewhere, never found out where it was.

but they were sent to us via courier and we were told they were being stored at minus 80 degrees. They arrived packed in dry ice, or certainly in the van, I think they were in dry ice. By the time we got them, there were a cardboard box that was starting to defrost and we could put them in our fridge, our vaccine fridge, and we had to use them within five days of delivery. So at the very beginning. That doesn’t sound like.

Ahmad (30:30.686)
minus 80. No, they were that sounds very fudged. So so the logic and I’m not defending this or trying to understand it in any way. But the logic was this is a new novel product, a new experimental formulation. And in order to keep it stable, it needs to be transported. When it’s moving, it has to be, you know, frozen.

And I think this was all logic is bullshit. So I think looking back on this now, I agree with you. I think this was theater to create the, you know, the allure of a special holy vaccine. It was part of that because pharmaceutical didn’t make sense. So when the vaccine is moving, then it has to be kept super chilled. Yeah. Because and to the point, so when it was, so we had five days to use it.

using it meant, so the actual vial had to be combined with saline. So the actual amount of product in the vial was tiny, probably less than a mil. And I think something like two or three mils of saline had to be added to it, agitated 10 times, it had to be carefully agitated 10 times, then it had to be used within four hours. It had to be in an arm within four hours. Okay, hold on a second.

So when you added that saline, was it chilled? Yeah, so the saline was in the fridge as well. So by this time, so the… But it’s two, three degrees Celsius or four degrees, because it can’t be anything lower than that’s frozen. Yeah, but you’re not understanding. So this whole thing about being minus 80 degrees, you’re adding two, three degrees Celsius saline to it. But it’s safe to do it now, I mean, because we’re not moving it.

It’s not, it’s not, it’s not in a van being shaken. Okay. Was that the wrong, was that the wrong type of agitation? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It wasn’t agitated properly. No. So the right agitation is, and so this was typically pharmacists or other trained people in a vaccine center would add the saline and then would carefully agitate it 10 times. You need to be really trained properly to do that.

Ahmad (32:44.046)
Absolutely. Well, it’s a bit like the, you know, I feel like wax on wax off. Yeah, absolutely. So there was accredited people had to be trained properly to do that. Then that was from then they had to rest there for 20 minutes or so. Did you get a certificate after this training? I never trained. I personally never did. Because I think if you didn’t get a certificate, then I think you’re missing out.

It was something to be proud of historically, wouldn’t it? Yeah, sure. Yeah, that you agitated and shook the… So once these vaccines were prepared, they were very carefully carried by the pharmacist, through into the vaccine center. No tremor? No, no, no. And if you fell over and dropped them, go start again. Oh, shit. Oh yeah, bad news. So we had five vaccine stations. So the vials would be given to all the doctors or the nurses doing the jabbing. And they had…

and there was a time written on. So from the time it was prepared to the time it had to be in the arm was four hours. So we ran three hour clinics, three hour job in clinics. So the vaccines were prepared at the start and they all timed out just after the clinic closed to the point where, you know, if there’s anybody, we got to like the end of the clinic, 10 minutes to go, we were running around outside looking for people to come in because we had six doses left and it was a real shame. Literally there was scorn placed on you.

This is gold. Gold. You’re wasting gold. You’re flushing gold down the toilet. Yes, absolutely. And that’s how it was looked upon. And we had to report back how many doses we’d wasted. There’s a national reporting system and every clinic I had to go and log on and say how many doses didn’t go into an arm. So this carried on for months. You know, we started in early January 21 and we…

We didn’t stop giving second doses till about July 21. We worked all the way through our population. I genuinely did not expect people to turn up for this product. Our first day of vaccinating, jabbing, was our over 75s. We called all our over 75s in. It was a horrible cold day. There’s about an inch of snow. It was black ice on the car park. We had seven patients, over 100 at that time.

Ahmad (35:02.478)
five of them walked into the vaccine center, covered in snow, shivering. And I had a queue of people outside because we had to socially distance the queue and they were all outside in the snow. Petrified. Well, no, they weren’t. Terrified. They were honestly. Lining up for the holy vaccine, they were grateful. They were, this is what broke my heart. It made me really ill. And I can still feel the feeling that it made me very ill in my gut.

because I went into deep- Lambs to the slaughter. I went into deep grief because these, I was talking to these people outside, talking to them as we were waiting, and they were telling me how grateful they were that this was their ticket to freedom. They’d been in nearly nine months of lockdown in their houses, they hadn’t seen people. This was the thing that was going to return their normal life to them, and they were so grateful. Love a bit of coercion. Ah, and my heart just broke.

Um, we had a 98% uptake rate in our over 75s. Yeah. And I, I then knew that I knew I couldn’t stay. I knew I had to find a way out and I, you know, my, my family wanted me to stay. My, my awake friends on the outside said, you’ve got to stay dude, because you’re our man on the inside, you see it for what it is and you can change it from the inside. And I went, okay.

I accept the challenge. And I tried, I know, no, you can’t do that. Dude, I can’t, Andrew Wakefield said this to me, you can’t have your foot in both camps. No, no. But I believe, I’ve always been an optimist. To this day, I’m full of hope. I think the future does look bright. And I always overestimate what I can achieve. And I, but I underestimated the size and the strength of the system.

and the degree to which other people protect the system. Cause I really thought logic and evidence in plain sight would sway people, but it doesn’t. And we know from lots of studies about like Milgram and Ash and Stockholm, we know that people follow the herd and that was the thing I’m at. I was outside the herd now. I was the problem.

Ahmad (37:23.43)
know, because people are safe in the herd, safe from the threat of COVID. But Graham out there, unprotected, unjabbed Graham, he’s the problem. So stay away from him. He’s mad.


Ahmad (00:00.43)
So listen, you’re running this clinic, right? This vaccine clinic for nine, 10 months. At any point, did you guys mix and match the vaccines? Like say, oh, you’ve had a Pfizer for your first shot. You can have an AstraZeneca for the second shot. Did you guys do that? In the end, yes. Initially, that was absolutely not allowed. So we had, at the very beginning, we had AstraZeneca, I think, week one. So…

We had no control over the vaccines that arrived by quantity or type. We were told what we were getting. And sometimes it was one or two, three days notice. So I had to, when on one occasion we were told we’re getting 2000 vaccine, 2000 doses. I’ve got 25,000 patients. I’m running a full-time GP practice and I’ve given three or four days notice that I’ve got 2000 doses coming and I’ve got to schedule enough vaccinators.

and marshals and other people to get 2000 doses into people’s arms within five days of the time it left the 80 degree storage. So by the time it gets to me, there’s like four days left, nearly four days, just over four days. So the clock’s ticking. So this is how strictly it was controlled. And I knew then it was a military operation. There was one week we probably had got 2000 patients waiting.

to be called in and we were told our delivery was like 300. I’m going, you’re joking. And I knew there was a practice about an hour and a half drive away that 2,000 patients, they were getting 2,000 doses. And they couldn’t use it. Probably 1,800 would go in the bin. So I contacted, I went all the way up through the chain, several layers and it got all the way to the National Vaccine Manager who’s a GP. And.

This even, and the request was, look, the van going to this other practice, going past my door, can you just drop off their load with me and give my load to them? The answer came back from the national vaccine clinical manager, no, I can’t change it, it’s above my pay grade. What the hell? So you know then you’re dealing with a military operation that’s outside the NHS. Okay, the national vaccine implementation manager could not change a delivery.

Ahmad (02:25.598)
on the request of both. Both practices were saying change it, swap it, couldn’t do it. So this vaccine was being delivered to my practice at I think it was like 6.30 in the morning. I and this is in February, I had to drive one and a half hours to the other practice arrive at the same time as their delivery sign for 1000 of their doses. There was another practice did the same thing. So two practices turned up in the

very early morning in the dark, and took almost all of their delivery. I drove it back to my practice in time to hand it over to my team of pharmacists who made them all up, all the doses up, and we got them all in people’s arms within four hours. And I had to do that because you couldn’t change the delivery. So I’ll give you that answer just to give you the perspective. So…

When we were told you cannot mix the vaccines, we absolutely couldn’t. If you’d had a AstraZeneca first dose, you had to have AstraZeneca second dose. And I think even by the time the boosters came around, the advice was still, ideally, you want to give them the same dose. But certainly by September, October 21, it was do what you need to. Yeah, what happened then? Do you know anything that’s ridiculous? Absolutely.

because drugs have different modes of action and different drugs interact differently. No studies show what AstraZeneca and Pfizer together do. But suddenly that all went out the window. You can mix and match. And why were no doctors even questioning that? I don’t get it. Because they were too deep in it. They were too embedded, too invested in it by then. I say emotionally invested, because I think you know this. I mean, if you’d screwed

um, you know, new ankle bone and you, new prosthesis into somebody’s ankle for the last 20 years and you lectured on it. You told her if it suddenly comes around to you and says, actually, I meant, um, we’ve got a problem with that thing and, uh, you need to fess up and play your part and you go, Oh, I can’t do that. I’m going to look stupid. I’m going to lose my, my clinical career and, um, credibility, um, can’t we just make it go away? Uh, okay.

Ahmad (04:46.838)
or make it go away then. So you don’t have to fess up and you can move on. And I think that’s what’s happened to most doctors is just it’s the blue pill. I don’t want to know. Don’t go into the detail. Please don’t tell me anything. Therefore I’m not part of it. They’re trying to isolate themselves. Do you think that flies? No, of course it doesn’t. It doesn’t sit with your soul, does it? If…

I can only imagine what it must be like to be somebody who’s trying to do that. I mean, I’ve never ever done something that I believe to be wrong knowingly. If, if, if to me, if something’s not right, I’ll say it no matter what the personal cost, that’s just who I am. Yeah. You can see that I’ve got the same problem. Yeah. Absolutely. So it, I cannot understand the mindset. It goes beyond money.

and professional hubris, it’s something deeper in the psyche of some humans that they’re able to hold in their head competing truths and move on and seem to operate perfectly normally. Like I really want to thank the people who have made my life misery, the fellow doctors are evil, bad people.

But then I think maybe they genuinely think they’re doing the right thing, that I’m the evil bad one. I’m the evil, dangerous doctor. And by punishing me, by ruining me, they’re doing the world a good service and they’re better doctors for it. I think that’s how they justify it to themselves. Absolutely. And I’ve had those same doubts. You know, I, you know, I am quite confident in my, in what I believe I know. I’ve always been

quite challenging to my colleagues and probably seen as a bit of an awkward sod. You know, and I wear that badge with pride really now. But I’ve always tried to, as far as I see it, help other people see raw data and to help them come to the understanding of what the truth really is. I don’t think that’s

Ahmad (07:06.41)
like the NHS, that is set up to preserve itself. And I think particularly with doctors, I think the way doctors are trained is, I mean, it is, I mean, you’ve been through it, I never have, but I’ve spoken to many doctors who’ve been, and they talked to me about how they were trained. And it is a very stressful few years, decades of your life, and you come out having invested so much of your time.

and you come out almost as automatons. You know, you’re very intelligent people, but you’ve been taught not to challenge authority. You’ve been taught to do what you’re told. And you’re too busy, to be honest, to read clinical papers and look at evidence. You know, show me the headline, show me the abstract. It’s good enough for most people, isn’t it? Most doctors. And also, medico-legally, the safety in numbers. You know, we know, medico-legally, if you’re doing what your colleagues do,

you’re okay. Even if you’ve harmed somebody, you’re not going to get struck off. You’re not going to get fined. You’re not going to be made an example of, but if you do something different to your colleagues, even if you saved lives, even if you reduced your waiting list, you’re a problem. Isn’t that mental? Completely.

to be judged now by the standard of your peers, even if the standard is substandard and not to be judged by what is right. Yeah, so I’ve, in my talks. What the frack. So I’ve, I use this to explain to the public about why do doctors do, because a lot of people said, why do doctors do what they do? And I say, well, you’ve got to understand they’re holding a hammer. Everything is a nail.

And the other thing I say to people is, common symptoms aren’t normal. So doctors are trained, well every day, you’re just seeing a conveyer belt of people who are in disease and well. So you come to believe that that’s normal. It’s not normal. What is normal is wellness and independence and health.

Ahmad (09:21.222)
yet your clinical system is showing you the averages of the people who come through the clinical system. So whether it’s vitamin D levels or cholesterol levels or a bone scan, the normal range in the clinical system is actually a subgroup of ill people. So when healthy people are tested, quite often their metrics are out of whack and all these red lights come up, oh, your LDL cholesterol is really high, Graham.

And I’m going, yeah, that’s a good thing. Oh, no, you need to be on a statin, you know. Well, no, it’s high because my energy trafficking system around my body is working really well and I’m moving lots of lipids around my body and lots of energy. Oh, no, you’re gonna die of a heart attack, Graham. Do you wanna hear something really funny? Go. So I was looking up your Twitter feed and then I went from one thing to another and I came across this article about, we need to talk about Zoe by Deborah Cohen and Margaret McCartney.

And then I started reading the comments section because the main articles were in the paywall and I go, I ain’t got no money to go in the paywall. But what was really funny is the people’s comments. And it was really, really sad, mate. It’s exactly what you’ve just touched upon LDLs. It’s like, listen to this. It’s pretty basic common sense. More vegetables, less sugar, less meat. I was like, no, it’s not more vegetable, less sugar. Yes.

But not less meat. They got one out of three things, right? One out of three. It’s like, but this is the indoctrination that’s in there now. And I kept reading through the comments and the same shit keeps coming on. And I had this great one, the 75 year old lady goes, I’ve stopped it. I quit Zoey today by coincidence because of the negative effects it was having on my health. What an air did I think it could teach me at the age of nearly 75 that I didn’t already know.

Marvelous. But that seems to be that common sense, if you like, that intuitive inquiry, internal inquiry is not present in the younger generations. Can I just read this one more comment? Sorry, I’m really sorry, but this is hilarious. I joined Zoe in June and I’m reaping the benefits. It sounds great, right? It has steered me towards eating more vegetables, pulses and beans. And I’m like, oh God, here we go.

Ahmad (11:47.958)
My sugar cravings are completely gone. That’s good. That’s good. I was hoping to lose a few pounds. It hasn’t happened. My weight remains the same. I have a cholesterol check coming up soon. This will be the ultimate test. I will be very disappointed if my bad cholesterol hasn’t come down significantly. I hope Zoe Harcom isn’t listening to this.

Bad cholesterol. Like there’s, there’s a thing as bad cholesterol. But I mean, what I’m trying to say is these comments to me, just tell me how brainwashed the public is. The clinicians, the clinicians, how indoctrinated, you know, this idea that a healthy diet is low in meat, low in fat. Yeah. You know, well, was it, um, was it, uh, J Edgar Hoover in America, you know, went to the

It might be an Eisenhower, I’m sure one of your listeners will correct this, but the quote was, Mr. President, when the American public falsely believe everything, something along these lines, our work will be complete. Oh, God. Yeah, so there’s been this deliberate policy of inversion going on for decades now since post-war, the late 40s, 50s.

And it made its way into medicine. It’s made its way into the food industry and every other industry. And a lot of what we’ve been indoctrinated to believe is actually almost the opposite. And that’s kind of the maxim I’ve been running by for the last five or six years is whatever’s on the news, do the opposite. If it concerns my own wellbeing, diet or anything, just do the opposite of what they’re telling you. And you’ll be fairly close to what’s actually optimal. Mate, that’s 100% right.

just go against every single thing that you’ve been taught and told, and you’re gonna be fine. I can’t find the quote. Yeah, I can’t find the quote. I thought I could maybe find the quote. But yeah, he was a nice fellow, wasn’t he? So Mr. President. J. Edgar Hoover, I mean, he was a nice chap. He was a nice individual. I think a lot of things started to go very badly worse, you know, in that post-war.

Ahmad (14:05.774)
you know, the 1946, 47, 48, I think a lot of the genesis of what we’re now seeing was actually put in place then. And, you know, I know there’s lots of people talked about this, you know, there’s various famous people tried to stand up against this in the early years, you know, JFK and others, and they all got exited, didn’t they? But here we are, it’s now visible. So I think this is positive, you know, if their plan was working, Ahmed, we wouldn’t know there was a plan.

We’d already be here in their shit show. No, I agree, I agree. No, I’m a few on that one. So listen, you then left the jabbing center. What have you done since then? So October 21, I walked away. Essentially my partners, without my knowledge, had a vote of no confidence in me. And I was told there was an investigation into my, because I was labeled as an anti-vaxxer. So I was…

put on gardening leave to the anti-vaxxer who’s running the vaccine. Yeah, absolutely. I was labeled as an anti-vaxxer, tinfoil hat, a conspiracy theorist. These are all words written down. So I was after a two week investigation, I was sent a nine page rap sheet. And I responded with a 55 page rebuttal, which knocked everything completely over. There was no evidence. I had a four hour hearing with one of my partners. I requested a meeting with all the partners, which was refused.

and they went on to vote me out and I’ll just vote in their confidence. And when I learned that they’d had that vote without my knowledge, I said, I’m gone, bye. So I walked away on a Friday. I hope they paid you off. No. But you’re a partner. Sorry, so I did eventually get my investment back, but it took, in fact, I’ve only just, a couple of months ago received the last installment, but for…

Nearly two years, I’ve gotten virtually nothing back. And we’re talking a large amount of money here. We’re talking north of five figures. So that was our personal money. So I’ve not earned a penny since. I’ve not worked since. So what I’ve, the confidence to leave came when I joined the Local Stand in the Park group, because that was the time when I realized I wasn’t mad. And I…

Ahmad (16:31.03)
and I actually got asked to do some public speaking. So they said, please, will you come and do a talk locally? And I said, well, am I kind of a bit worried that they might come for me? So can we keep it quiet? He says, yeah, keep it quiet. They invited 50 people, 200 came. Somebody came and said, would you come to another talk? 500 came. And this is late 21. I then had the BBC on the phone. I had, you know, and I got really scared. I had people.

contacting me saying look they’re gonna come for you know you might find yourself hanging from a door knob a door no oh yeah you know you know how people are exited that door knob has to be quite high up yeah you’re six foot two absolutely that’s a big door I had people showing me pictures of the technology that exists to take people out I got really scared I technology things like drones you know we I don’t know if these things exist but somebody showed me a video that said look they’ve actually got drones that can break into

aerial drones that can what the first one breaks your window and then two or three come in and they do facial recognition and they come and you know, they blow you up basically. And I got really scared. I believe that’s like, yeah, I’m sure that’s happening, but I don’t think they would do that. It’s too messy. It’s too messy. And also I’m too mad. I’m not important enough, but the reason I mentioned that I made is I, I did a few public talks in the north of England, late 21, early 22.

And then I got really scared. I kind of hid, you know, I was closing the curtains and thinking, right, they’re gonna get me. So I sort of shrunk away a bit, but I’d found a group, I’ll give them a plug, we hope we put the link in, but the ther is a website and there’s a book, the Red Pill Revolution book. And I see the lead author of that book is a

is a naturopath called Dr. Jeremy Ayers. So I reached out, when I was still in the NHS, but right at the end, I reached out to Jeremy as a mentor, if you like. And I’ve been working with him ever since. So what I’m doing now with Jeremy and others is we are building the alternative. Well, it’s not really the alternative, it’s actually the original. We’re looking to restore the original, true healthcare system.

Ahmad (18:55.178)
around the world, that’s our ambition. You know, we’re looking at primarily the UK and America, but we already have members from all over the world that are working with Dr. Jeremy. And so we have a membership community, we have a private forum where people can come and learn about true natural health. What’s the website called? It’s, so if you, so jeremyears.com, A-Y-R-E-S.

That’s Jeremy’s homepage. And through there you can join what’s called the 90 day protocol and the membership group. Naturally better. Naturally better, yeah. So what we’re working on is naturally better. So Jeremy is originally a chiropractor and he’s a naturopractic consultant. He’s extremely gifted and what he does is he blends all the…

ancient learning from the Eastern medicine with the best of true science. And I’m not, so most of what we call science in healthcare is actually scientism. It’s a religion, it’s not science. So the people like Dr. Jack Cruz, he is a very key part, or his teachings and evidence are a very key part of what Dr. Jeremy has brought into Naturally Better, so.

understanding how light and water, fourth phase water, easy water, understanding how all of these contribute to human health is exactly what we’re about. So that’s what our community is learning. So we’ve got a membership group that’s growing fast and then we’re working on a couple of other projects that I’d like to quickly mention which hopefully will come to fruition in the next couple of weeks. So the first is we are working on a

naturopathic coaching course. So we are going to train an army of naturopathic coaches in true healthcare. So this course is gonna start later this year. It’s got about 40 modules and we’re currently working on this now. And in subsequent years, we’re gonna train naturopathic consultants. And we see existing clinicians in the healthcare system. This is what you need to build a parallel community. Yeah.

Ahmad (21:17.598)
Parallel system. That’s exactly what we’re doing. We can’t change this old one. So we’ve realized that there’s no point shouting at the old system complaining. We’ve got to build the alternative. Yeah. And it isn’t really the alternative. It’s the original. So an army of coaches. And in fact, I was speaking to some nurses last two nights ago at one of my talks. And they said, we’re in. How do we get on this course? Because we’ve left and we want to retrain and work naturally better. So that’s the first.

initiative, the next one, which hopefully will interest yourself and other clinicians, we’re going to launch a lifeboat. We call it Project Lifeboat. So this is a safe place where clinicians who are probably still in the system, yet have concerns or feel trapped, and probably want to leave but can’t because they need to pay the bills, a safe place where all these clinicians can come and interact.

in this naturally better environment and we’re going to talk about what it takes to be human, what it takes to be a healthy human. How do you make sick people well? What should the new system look like? And I hesitate to say system because it doesn’t really need to be a system, it needs to be ground up organic and it will be built by the experts that are in the system at the minute but also experts outside the system. You know.

even to the extent of tribal health, you know, Aboriginal health, the American Indians, the African tribes, the medicine men of South America, they all will have something. So, Jeremy’s got this vision of what he calls a multiversity. It’s a university that’s open to all who can contribute to the wellness of mankind going forward. So, this is the vision we have, is to create a learning environment that’s safe.

away from prying eyes of the regulators and the current detractors where we can come together, talk honestly and start to build back better. The regulators just seem to be enforcers. Of course. They’re just police. They’re a police. They’re an arm of the state. They really are. That sounds all very good. I think this is the way we move forward. We

Ahmad (23:42.518)
building a parallel. Yeah, we need to build back better without them. 100%. I’m gonna read out something that was on my Twitter feed. I posted something, it’s not mine. I reposted it, but I really liked it. Said the policy makers are right at the top. And who are these policy makers? So right at the top, mate, you’ve got the bank of international settlements. They ultimately control the money supply and thus the global markets.

trade and national economies. And underneath that, you’ve also got the central banks. They are going direct and directly funding the government spending. Monetary policy has effectively become fiscal policy. Also within the policy makers, but the third tier is the WEF, the Council of Foreign Relations, the Club of Rome, Chatham House, the Rockefellers. These think tanks and global representative groups, they formulate the policies to achieve G.

the global public private partnership objectives. The resource allocation is determined by the Bank of International Settlement, central banks, but they are working in partnership with the think tanks and other representative bodies to convert that into global political policy. Then underneath that, you’ve got the policy distributors who actually dishes everything out. You got the United Nations, you got the IMF, you got the IPCC, you got the World Bank, you got the WHO.

You got these philanthropists, you got global corps, you got NGOs. These organizations and bodies take policy directors from the policy makers that we’ve just discussed and distribute them to the policy enforcers. Yeah. The right way we get to the policy enforcers. Who are the policy enforcers? Well, first of all, the national governments. You got the civil service. You get the NHS. You get the I don’t know what the RRU is.

IPSO, Ofcom, police, military courts, local government statutory agencies, GMCs, stuff like that. And you’ve got selective scientific authorities like SAGE, MHRA, JCVI, CDC, FDA, NIH, EMA, AMA. These policy enforcers exploit or work with the selected scientific authorities.

Ahmad (26:05.122)
to justify the policies they are required to enforce. Reinforcing this for, you know, science, because we’re good. This is the right thing. Follow the science. Are you anti-science? Yeah, trust the experts. Are you anti-science? Yes. Policy propagandists then come underneath that. And hybrid warfare specialists, MSM, censorship, shadow banning.

fact checkers, full fact, social media platforms, hybrid warriors, 77th Brigade, anti-hate campaigners, CCE, CCDH, the propagandists and hybrid warfare specialists are tasked with convincing the public to accept and hopefully believe in the policies. They use psychological manipulation, disinformation, misinformation, censorship, and propaganda.

Now, who are the policy subjects? You and me and the public, the plebs. We’re in the ant farm. We are the subjects of the policy which cascades down through the government, so the global public-private partnership system. We largely pay for the system. So not only are we the victims of the system, we pay for it, we pay for the system.

through taxation and public borrowing. The system is designed to exploit us, but we are increasingly unnecessary component as a GPP look to seize the global commons. We are the plebs. We built the prison, we pay for the prison, we’ve moved into the prison willingly. And we don’t even know it’s a prison. We’re glad to be here. And we’re thankful.

for the present. We’re thankful for the tick. Thank you. Ticks keep sucking the blood out of me. In fact, it’s, it is me. The tick is me. Sorry.

Ahmad (28:15.282)
Oh Lord. Absolutely. But I, so before we end on that, tell me my friend, or you had your laptop open. Was there anything you had to screen something from our friend? Fergus Greenwood. Yeah. Hi Fergus. Great guy. So Fergus is, um, he’s identified these five groups and I think he talked about it on, on your podcast and I’ve made a sort of picture of it because that’s how I like, I’m very visual.

He talked about the ringleaders, the strivers, the normies, the doubters and the rebels. And he talked about the motivations and strengths and their mode of action. But he also talked about how to flip them. So I think that’s where I’m at now is, you know, we need to flip. We need, we need to pay less attention to the system because the more tension we pay it, the more we legitimize it. 100% more energy we give it. And I’m, I’m over that now. I’m over it. So we, we.

You know, the ringleaders are at the very top, they’re probably out of our reach, but we need to show them that we have evidence of their guilt. We need to tell them that they’re guilty and we know it, and we’re gonna come for them one day. The strivers, so these are the, and he gave an example of doctors and MPs, so the strivers who are still compliant and complicit, you know, because they are benefiting. We need to show them what’s coming for them, and tell them that they’ve been the useful idiots. Just like Nuremberg, we know, we see you.

and one day we will come for you. We need to scare them a bit. I think that’s important. Yeah. I think that’s the only thing they’re gonna be motivated by. Yeah, they can’t, logic won’t do it. Appealing to their better nature won’t do it. We need to say, look, your gravy train is coming to an end very, very messily for you. And there might be a rope hanging by a tree if you’re not careful and you might be ending up there. Yeah, because remember just as in Nuremberg,

the guys at the top escaped. In fact, they all got promoted and found great jobs in America. Yeah. Running NASA and God knows what. Yeah. But it was, it was the useful idiots that hanged. Yeah. So just remember that following orders. Yeah. The normies in the middle. Um, these are the ones who just don’t see it yet. They’re probably asleep. They still think they’re in a comfortable existence and the vaccine, the holy job.

Ahmad (30:34.834)
reading The Guardian. Reading The Guardian and watching the BBC. And David Attenborough’s wonderful. Yeah. Paula Behrs are dying. Yeah. Save them. So we need to be kind to them, as Fergus said. We need to communicate with kindness, reality, and not expect to do much very quickly, but expect them one day to come back with a question. And when they come back with a question, then we can flip them.

Then underneath the normies there’s the doubters. These are the skeptical scared ones who know there’s something wrong but can’t leave. And he said, we need to scare them more than they’re scared of the government. So just like them, I was scared of leaving. I was scared of the future, but we need to say, look, come over here. The water’s actually quite nice. It’s certainly nicer than what you’re going to have over there very soon. So you need to come and join us quickly. And then there’s the rebels, which is us.

We’re already out. We’re the bullshit detectors. So I love that. I love that graphic. Thank you, Fergus. I think that’s very powerful. So we need to focus on the future. We need to keep optimistic. I know it’s easy to be fearful. And I’ve been through fear. I’ve been through anger. I’ve been through grief. These are all sort of negative dark energies. We need to remain positive and light.

And we’ve talked about magnetism and light and frequency. And that’s, you know, I was taught that the human body is a bag of chemicals. Mr. Pharmacist, your profession is built on the human body being just a bag of chemicals, drugs and receptors and tissues, that’s just bullshit. You know, the I now know, and only starting to vaguely understand that the human body is way, way more interesting and magical than that.

We are beings of light, just as Jack Cruz talked about, our mitochondria, our photosynthesizing light. We’re harnessing the Earth’s magnetism. We’re doing it all through easy water. And actually, a therapy said our food energy is only a third of our total energy production anyway. That’s mental. Yeah. So who knows what we don’t know yet. So I have ultimate faith in my body to heal myself. So Dr. Jeremy always says this to his patients.

Ahmad (32:56.866)
Have faith that your body knows only how to cure you. Don’t fight against what your body’s doing. So those symptoms you are feeling, and you were having a cleanse earlier on, be thankful that your body is helping you prepare for what’s next. Your body is already ahead of you in cleansing and preparing for the next phase of your life. So be grateful for that and get out of the way. Don’t suppress those symptoms and don’t introduce another toxic drug.

Clear the toxins, that’s what your body’s doing. So open up the roots of elimination. Be thankful when you have a purge, whatever end it comes out of, because your body’s getting rid of toxic shit. And a lot of our toxic shit is emotional shit, because we’ve all been traumatized, we’ve all been brainwashed, we’ve fucked with our minds, fracked with our minds. That’s all in us, and it’s all physical.

injuries that

Ahmad (34:21.058)
The war is already won. People will talk about, it’s checkmate. It’s just a matter of time now. Mate, there’s a problem. We’ve been speaking for almost three hours. All right. And I promised my wife it’s gonna be two hours and I was gonna come up and massage her head and nurse her and I feel bad now. But I also feel bad because I actually could talk to you for hours more. I mean, there’s so much other stuff we need to talk about. You need to promise me you’re gonna come back. Of course.

will definitely come back. No, I mean, in about three, four months time in the summer as well as better, but I feel bad. I can just, I can just sense my wife is like, where are you? You promise you’d come and massage my head. You need to go and do that. But listen, we’ve got my signature question before you answer that. I just want to say to a few people, some people message me and I just want to do some shots. Right? So I had Heather, Heather Anderson leave me a really nice comment.

She bought me a coffee, oh my, buy me a coffee. And she said, you are my hero. To have a son with your integrity would be a gift from God, sending prayers, thank you. Heather Anderson, you made me cry with that comment. And I just wanna say, I love you, man, God bless you. And then there’s Malcolm, who basically said, I feel the words thank you adequately cover my appreciation.

for what you have sacrificed to stand on ethics and principles.

Ahmad (35:55.882)
Wish I could do more for you and your family.

That’s nice. And one last comment. And then, and this is a great one. And this person chose to remain anonymous. And she does a quote by Brianna Weist. And she goes, and this is for all the good people fighting for the truth and a better world. So it covers you and me both. Your new life is going to cost you your old one. It’s going to cost you relationships and friends. It’s going to cost you being liked.

and understood. Man, I get that, because people don’t understand. My colleagues don’t understand me. But it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. Because the people who are meant for you are going to meet you on the other side. And you’re going to build a new comfort zone around the things that actually move you forward. And instead of being liked, you’re going to be loved. Correct. Instead of being understood, you’re going to be seen.

All you’re going to lose is what was built for a person you no longer are. That’s beautiful. Let it go. Dude, how fracking cool is that? I’ve got goosebumps. I’ve got all the shivers, yeah. I wished I’d been able to read that about three years ago. Yeah. Because that is a wonderful guide. And the, I mean, in some ways it’s easier now to face all of this than it was three years ago.

And Dr. Jeremy faced this 30 years ago. I mean, he looks at me and he goes, dude, you’re so late to the party. Yeah. Me too, man. I know. But what makes it easier for us, Ahmed, is that the pain and the life experiences that these people have gone through can be expressed in words just like that. That we can now read and go, ah, you’re right. I feel okay. I’m not mad. I’m not confused. I am. And that’s exactly what’s happened to me, Ahmed. Every talk I give, people come up to me and give me a hug.

Ahmad (37:56.506)
and go, you know, I think I know you. Yeah. We, I’m sure, I’m sure I’ve met you before. And I think our tribe is assembling and whether you believe in soul, souls and or not, what’s happening is where our energies are coming together. We’re all meeting at this time and we are resonating. And when we resonate, there’ll be no stopping us. Mm, amen. Absolutely. And I love this new tribe. And you know, I’ve met so many wonderful people again.

I’ve got so many nice supporters and followers and it totally validates that what I’m doing is right. So I’m in a good place now. I’m in a very good place. So listen, you’re on your deathbed, you’ve lived a long healthy life, you’re not worried about your bad cholesterol. Your bad cholesterol. You’ve not been taking pesky statins or anything like that. For a pharmacist, you’ve done a crazy job of not taking any drugs.

What advice would you give to your family and your loved ones before you pass on? So what I’d say to everybody is, is trust your innermost feelings. You know, be that a gut feeling or your inner calling, trust it and believe in it. And don’t listen to the doubters out there. Um, because ultimately we’re all, when you connect with your, your life’s path, your sole purpose, when you connect with that, you know.

And it is a no, it’s not a belief. It’s not a feeling that you know it. And there’s something immensely empowering about knowing something. When you feel it, when you feel that you know it’s right and you go with that and don’t let anybody persuade you not to, because all they’re doing is trying to, it’s your ego and the people holding onto your ego, the avatar that you were, it’s people holding onto that, trying to say, please don’t leave because

I’ll be less comfortable if you leave this space, but you’ve got to go. When you walk through that gate, that door, and you look back and you go, what took me so long? Because on the other side, it’s beautiful. So I’d say that. I’d also say somebody gave me this a couple of years ago, little Domino. Because when I was doing my public talks, after about six months, I felt nothing’s happening. The dials aren’t moving. Why am I doing this?

Ahmad (40:20.638)
I’m putting myself in harm’s way. I’m getting lots of criticism. People think I’m mad. And then somebody came up to me and gave me a domino and said, be the domino. You never know what will result. And subsequent, I’ve got the shivers. But subsequently, a lot of people have come to me, clinicians and other groups and said, I mean, there was a group of like the 100K, the NHS 100K nurses.

in my local hospital, they reached out to me and I went to their meeting, I spoke to them and they said, you know, we only set up this because one of us came to your first talk. I didn’t know. Wow. I’ve had paramedics come to me and say, any reason I’m doing what I’m doing now is because I came to your first talk. Wow. And you know, the ripples are unseen initially. So when you doubt yourself, just…

Do what you can today and be kind to yourself. Even if it’s a small act. I’ve got shivers now. I needed to hear this. Be kind to yourself and don’t think that you should be doing more than you can. Be grateful that you can do something and don’t expect it to return to you, but I can tell you, Ahmed, it will. Everything returns to you. The karma will come back to you in time, in this time, in our time.

And I don’t think we need to wait for another time. It’s not it’s coming close now. I truly believe it. Do you know, that was an amazing answer. I know you listen to my podcast because as soon as I asked it, you’re like, boom. If you answer normally, people go, oh, wow, that’s a hard one. Right. And you’re like, you’re ready. You’re ready. I’m always ready. I like it. No, that was a great answer. Can I ask you something? How far did you have to drive to come here today?

Well, I, so about four hours down the country, so I live in the Northwest, but I was actually doing a talk in the Southwest two days ago, so I did that. And I’ve stayed hotel and with family a couple of nights, but I’ve about an hour and a half across the country to you tonight. And then another four hour drive tonight. I’m going back to my family’s and an hour and a half. Then I’m doing another talk even further south at the weekend.

Ahmad (42:41.562)
And I probably got a six hour drive after that. But I love doing these things because I meet real people. Exactly. And I hug, people come up and hug me and people say thank you for what you’re doing. And that is the domino. That’s when you realize the domino is real and then it’s becoming, it’s a, there is a big domino at the end of this when they will fall. 100%. Everyone, please can you look at, for Graham Atkinson, Red Pill Pharmacist, I’ll put all the details up.

on the website and on the podcast and everything. And all of you out there listening, I fricking love you. Graham, do you love them? I love, I love this community. I love you. I love you too, man. All right. Bye bye everybody.