Twitter/X ⁠Joe Lee MD

Ahmad (00:00.414)
Yeah, you said it’s nice, just before I press record button, it’s nice to speak to another surgeon. Dude, I hate to say this, I’m an ex-surgeon now.

joe lee (00:12.236)
I’m sorry to hear that.

Ahmad (00:14.346)
Like, I don’t think, I don’t know if I’ll ever hold a scalpel again. I can’t, you know, I used to always say, I never want to retire. I’d be quite happy to operate into my seventies and work in my seventies. But I don’t know if I’ll ever, ever operate on anyone again. Can you imagine that? I mean, like as a surgeon, you must love holding that scalpel and operating. Just imagine that being taken away from you. How would that make you feel?

joe lee (00:40.32)
Well, see, I’m 57. If I was 47 and somebody told me that, I would be really depressed. I wouldn’t be so depressed right now though. But I get it, I mean, for you, it’s not fair at all.

Ahmad (00:58.486)
Well, can I just say something? You’re doing something really good because you look like you’re 37. So what’s your secret? Seriously, what’s your secret?

joe lee (01:10.808)
I think that I never got out in the sun. I mean, I did 70,000 plus Lasik surgeries. I was always indoors. I mean, there is no better sunblock than walls. You know, you got walls without windows inside a building, a room inside a building. There’s no UV light in there. I had a patient who was, she looked really young.

Ahmad (01:18.623)
Wow.

Ahmad (01:36.066)
Dude, you know… But I love the sun. I love the sun.

joe lee (01:40.128)
And I think that’s true. Sure. I mean, and we need the sun. And it’s just a modern thing to think that we don’t want wrinkles. But sun is healthy for us. We need the vitamin D and everything, right? So it’s just this modern fascination with wrinkle-free skin and what beauty is. And we didn’t live to 80 when, you know, 100, 200, 1,000, 10,000 years ago. It’s just that now, right?

Ahmad (02:11.306)
I don’t really care about wrinkles. It’s funny you should say that. I know there’s some people, a lot of people who are obsessed about skin and not having wrinkles and botox. I think you should age with grace. Just embrace it and, you know, adopt all the gray hairs, the baldness, the wrinkles. And just, I think that’s a lot more sexy than being fake and looking plastic. Do you know what I think?

joe lee (02:36.312)
Oh, definitely for men it is, yeah. I mean, I think women got the short end of the stick because society expects a lot more out of them, you know?

Ahmad (02:40.043)
I think for a moment too.

Ahmad (02:48.062)
Yeah. Well, I don’t know. My wife is amazing. Like she’s 38 and she’s got these gray streaks in her hair and she loves them. She’s, she’s a very confident woman. She’s like, I love my gray hairs. I think I look sexy. I went you damn right. You look sexy. I don’t want her to diet or do anything else.

joe lee (02:49.212)
It’s a little unfair.

joe lee (03:08.248)
Yeah, and you know, you’ve got three wonderful kids. She’s, you know, she’s good forever, right? She’s gonna be very happy. What does it matter if you look great like Jennifer Aniston but you don’t have kids? No, you said not to mention people and I’m sorry I mentioned her. I…

Ahmad (03:13.23)
She’s good forever. She’s good forever, mate.

Ahmad (03:23.882)
It’s okay. But you know what, as an eye surgeon, you know where the top, I think, correct me if I’m wrong, the top three medical interventions are cataract surgery, hip replacement surgery, and something else. I can’t remember. I’m right. Am I right?

joe lee (03:48.048)
I think it’s pretty good. Close, yeah. Effective surgeries that have been done on a very large scale, yeah. Well, there’s LASIK too now. So LASIK has been done hundreds of millions of times. And it’s a very effective surgery. And I know that there’s a whole internet community out there that complains about LASIK complications. And I remember when I first started doing LASIK,

Ahmad (03:50.286)
There’s a third one, I just can’t remember it.

Ahmad (03:58.315)
Is it?

Ahmad (04:05.483)
Wow.

joe lee (04:19.364)
I read everything. And it was a little scary because I don’t know how you felt when you first went out into private practice, but I finished my fellowship at USC. And I started on my own. And it was a little bit nerve wracking because I’m like, oh, my gosh. Everything’s on me right now. And I had a very interesting observation that a lot of other ophthalmologists at the time.

didn’t have. And my observation was cataract surgery patients, I mean, we typically operate on an 80 year old. We can make mistakes, we can have bad complications. But what happens then? In five to 10 years, we literally bury our mistake. I’m not saying we should purposely make mistakes so we can bury them, but they’re going to die. But see, LASIK patients, we start at 20.

Ahmad (05:10.719)
Mm.

joe lee (05:17.64)
When I make a mistake, they are on earth above ground longer than I am for the next 60, 70 years. So that realization just shook me and it scared me. And it made me realize what a sacred duty I had as a LASIK surgeon. And no one’s perfect and I’m not perfect.

Ahmad (05:37.774)
Mmm.

Ahmad (05:41.111)
Mmm.

joe lee (05:41.312)
But I’ve done, since my fellowship, over 70,000 plus surgeries in my three offices. Now I’m down to two. I haven’t had a single LASIK claim lawsuit or settlement, which is a virtually impossible record, virtually impossible record. Dr. Robert Maloney, he can’t sue me for telling the world that he’s had 12 LASIK lawsuits. It’s all public information. And he’s done about 80,000 cases.

Ahmad (05:54.306)
Yeah.

joe lee (06:07.484)
So it’s not an easy feat to get to over 70,000 in a row without a lawsuit claim or something.

Ahmad (06:12.814)
Are you just, are you just, are you really just good at paying them off, off the books? Like…

joe lee (06:19.92)
Oh, I’m saying no settlement. You know, I mean, yeah, yeah. I’m just saying, yeah, for me, it was so hard to get there. And I’ve been over backwards. Some of my most serious complications, I spent 20,000 on one patient on rehabbing him. And he was one of my worst complications. And that experience taught me a lot.

Ahmad (06:22.506)
I’m just joking mate, I’m joking, I’m winding you up, I’m joking.

Ahmad (06:46.538)
Yeah, I think for the listeners, we need to explain something though. Joe, listen, dude, at our level, it’s very rare that we as surgeons make mistakes. The number of times that we make the mistake is so rare. What happens though is you can have complications and those are out of our control.

joe lee (06:47.656)
But yeah, so.

joe lee (07:08.558)
BYE

Ahmad (07:12.086)
You know, I always used to say to my patients, you know, I’m not stressed when I’m in the operating theater. I’m relaxed. I’ve got my playlist. I’m in my element. I can, you know, I’m having fun. The moment I stress out is when you get wheeled out of the operating theater and you know what? Everything’s at my control. How compliant are you gonna be? How’s your body gonna react? How are you gonna heal? How’s your, what your pain level is gonna be like?

What’s your past trauma like? What’s your nutrition like? What’s your sleep like? What’s your diet like? Everything. Are you gonna trip up on the way out? Are you gonna not listen to my instructions and take shortcuts and end up with a complication? That’s what freaks me out. And I think a lot of the complications are outside of our control.

joe lee (07:58.476)
Well, yeah, and it should because look at people like me. I had a endoscopic spine surgery by a very good guy, spine pro here out in Cedars-Sinai in LA. And I was doing cataract surgery and I couldn’t lift my arm. And I had been to doctors a lot.

Ahmad (08:08.887)
Mm.

joe lee (08:21.164)
I had at least seven, eight MRIs over the course of six years. No one found anything. Apparently MRI wasn’t the way to do it. This guy says, no, you need to go get a CT right at the C7 level. I go get the CT and he looks at me and goes, see that little nub of tissue that’s pressing on your C7 nerve coming out of your spine. And so I said, okay, no one else has ever told me that they can take care of it. You’re pretty confident you can.

and he described how many cases he had done and you know it’s a lot less than me but LASIK is a 15 minute surgery so I’m gonna have done a lot so you know if they don’t say thousands of cases I’m not nearly as worried so I had it done and when I woke up I could lift my arm and the pain was gone now I still have residual you know irritation and some neck spasms but it’s 90 better and uh and then a week after surgery I went and played golf so we’re all idiots

Ahmad (08:54.345)
Mmm.

Ahmad (09:18.286)
Ha ha!

joe lee (09:18.556)
So patients don’t do what you think they’re doing. And then of course my little wound got a little infected, I think, but that was all my fault, right? Yeah. So we’ll do, you know, obviously if I had the anterior approach, I would have, and I had the plate put in, I wouldn’t be able to move. I wouldn’t play golf in a week, right?

Ahmad (09:38.966)
That’s the thing, it’s also when you’re feeling your best that you’re at your greatest risk. And I would warn my patients that. I would say to them, listen, you’re gonna feel like a million dollars, you’re gonna think, what the hell is this guy saying? He’s just trying to freak me out. And I’m just telling you, that’s when you’re gonna mess things up. So do me a favor, just stick to the program. And most patients would stick to the program.

joe lee (09:39.272)
But so, so.

Ahmad (10:05.098)
And even if you stuck to the program, there’s still a risk that you could get complication, your immune system might be shit, some other problem, but the risk was a lot less than if you didn’t stick to the program. If you went off the reservation, you’re asking for trouble. You know, am I allowed to say that? Is that PC anymore? I don’t know if that’s PC, but anyway, but listen,

joe lee (10:23.188)
I know, we’re all presently… Yeah, we’re all in a crazy place.

Ahmad (10:29.694)
Yeah, go to a crazy place. So I stumbled upon you last year, early last year. I was new to Twitter. I was a Twitter newbie. This is before Elon Musk took over. And I was building a following and I was tweeting away about all the things that I thought were wrong in this world. And suddenly I came across you, I don’t know how. And I reached out to you and said, listen, dude, you need to come on my podcast.

And we booked it and then you disappeared. And I was actually freaked out. I honestly, I kid you not, I was worried someone had killed you. Someone in the government had come to get you because you were very outspoken and you seemed very uncaptured. You were, you were genuine and raw and passionate. And you seemed like a true ethical doctor and surgeon. You know, the way you even just said, you know, the responsibility of

joe lee (11:04.116)
Yeah, I got you.

Ahmad (11:29.19)
operating someone. I think that’s what a true surgeon should be like. It’s an honor to treat a patient who gives you their body and allows you to operate on them. Isn’t that how you feel?

joe lee (11:40.902)
Absolutely. I mean, I remember I had a patient and 10% of my patients need touch-up or enhancement surgeries to fine tune the result in the first year. And I don’t charge for that. So within a year, there’s no charge for that enhancement. And if they come in at two years, I still don’t charge them because they’re gonna be mad at me.

Ahmad (11:52.846)
Ahem.

joe lee (12:04.324)
and I’ve made enough money. So I extend that warranty without telling them for at least two to three years.

That’s just, you know, what I like to do because I don’t want the argument. I don’t want the ass. So I just want to make them happy. I had a patient who I did LASIK for and within three months we knew she needed a touch up and she was furious with me. And her mom came in and they would both yell at me every visit. And, you know, I’d have like 20, 30, 40 patients in the, in the waiting room. And she’d go yell up and down and tell everyone what a horrible person I was. And the last time it was like the, the final straw, she just

cursed me out and then she left. And you know, I called her up. I said, you know, you trusted me enough the first time to let me do survey on your eyes. We clearly have a personality issue here conflict. I don’t know if it’s my fault or yours, but if you don’t let me do the enhancement, you’re going to look in your mirror the rest of your life and just feel hate for me. And I don’t want you to have to feel that.

So you know I can’t guarantee it, but you know let us screw your eyes up on purpose. I’m gonna try my best to do a good job. So come back in, because I’m not gonna charge you for this. But if you go somewhere else, they’re gonna charge you $5,000, $6,000. Come back in, I’ll take care of it. I’ll forget everything you did. I just don’t want you to be miserable out there and hating me forever. She came in, we did the touch-up. She did fine. She actually ended up 2020.

Ahmad (13:09.518)
Ahem.

joe lee (13:34.576)
Of course she never came in again. Of course she never apologized for everything she did. But you know, I thought good because whatever, a patient gets stressed, you know, and I get stressed when I have surgery. I understand patients get stressed when they have surgery, especially if that’s not perfect. Now she had a really strong reaction to it and really tried to hurt me, but still my obligation to her was to try to make it okay.

Ahmad (13:48.334)
Hmm.

joe lee (13:59.456)
Because I’m not going to have her look in the mirror the rest of her life and think, what a horrible person he was. I just can’t do that, right? So I went out of my way to call her up and explain this. And then she came in. So yeah, I could have just let her go. So there was nothing she could have done to me. But I tried to do the right thing. But again and again in my practice, I’m not perfect. I’ve gotten mad at patients. I’ve done things that I probably shouldn’t have. But I generally try to do for them what I would do for my family.

Ahmad (14:06.318)
Mmm.

joe lee (14:30.208)
So it’s not an easy thing. And a lot of…

Ahmad (14:33.278)
That’s why I would always say, try and treat my patients like, yeah, I would say I’m going to try and treat you like a family member that I actually like. We’ve all got family members that we’re like, oh God, is he here as well? Oh Lord, I need to, I need to watch what I say. Have you got anyone like that? You know what I mean?

joe lee (14:36.668)
And it’s hard for certain students.

joe lee (14:46.192)
Exactly.

joe lee (14:57.724)
Yeah, if I wasn’t a lipstick-sorted like… Absolutely, yeah.

Ahmad (14:59.914)
Like a cousin or uncle, you’re like, oh, bloody hell, man, here they are.

joe lee (15:05.695)
I’m not an easy person by any means. So yeah, there’s a lot of people I don’t know.

Ahmad (15:10.242)
But listen, we’re here to talk about the whole COVID vaccine business, and you had a theory, and now you’ve multiplied those theories. I’d love to hear your theories about them. But can I just quickly ask you something? I get a lot of people, a lot of trolls, I love it. It cracks me up. On Twitter or X, they go, oh, so says the foot surgeon. They’re having a go at me, they’re trying to insult me. Oh.

What does the foot surgeon know about virology? Huh, you know, get back to school and do your own shit or get back to fixing bunions. I even had my medical directors tell me, don’t question vaccine efficacy, the COVID vaccine efficacy, stick to your scope of practice. And I said, my scope of practice is, I’m a doctor first and medical ethics is paramount. Then I’m a surgeon, then I’m an orthopedic surgeon, then I’m a foot and ankle surgeon.

joe lee (15:53.406)
Cough

Ahmad (16:05.942)
You know, what about you? Do you ever get anyone say to you, what the frack do you know about COVID and vaccines, you eye surgeon, you lazy eye surgeon?

joe lee (16:17.596)
Well, of course, I get it all the time, all the time. But if they’re open-minded enough to just talk to me for a minute, it doesn’t matter who they are. It doesn’t matter if they’re an immunologist, a faxologist, a pediatrician. It doesn’t matter if they’re infectious disease. Within a minute or two, they’ll know I know just as much as they do and a lot more. So, okay, they went through the formal training. Well, we all know.

I mean, I went through formal medical school training, but I didn’t go to class for the first two years, did you? I rarely went to class. I was self-taught, right? University of Michigan gave me my medical degree, but I taught myself. I mean, I used some of their notes, but I used textbooks. I mean, if I had used the notes from their lecture, like Francis Collins was my genetics professor.

And he was a director of the NIH, right? If I used his notes, would I have done better on his tasks? I felt, yeah, possibly, but I would have, I prefer to learn something that is more general. So I studied general textbooks, meaning I didn’t just wanna study his notes. I wanted to understand genetics really well so that when I took my board exam, I would do really well on it. But his lectures aren’t necessarily going to do that for me.

So I didn’t even go to his classes. I went to a few just, you know, if there was an important guy and he came and I, yeah, sometimes I went to lectures but I skipped 95% of my lectures. So, you know, self-taught is self-taught. And so I can’t teach myself immunology. I can’t teach myself infectious disease. I can’t teach myself, what can I not teach myself? I can. I mean, see, I had a very unusual background. My dad…

the parents were unusually extremely religious. And they were Seventh-day Adventists, which is, you know, I’m just not one. I had to think about religion my whole life because they were in a, you know, it’s almost a cult religion. And so my parents…

Ahmad (18:29.462)
Dude, stop, stop. You’re not gonna believe this. Me too. Ha ha ha. Not Seventh Day Adventist. Mom and dad, very religious in a cult. So, oh my God, yet another parallel. So tell me about it. Tell me about what it was like, because I’m feeling it.

joe lee (18:39.156)
Your background is as good as this.

joe lee (18:50.552)
That’s what it does. If you’re in this background, you learn to question early on, and you learn to challenge early, early on. And that’s what I was doing my whole life, challenging it. And you know, my parents put me on a farm in a cult group in the middle of Tennessee with no academic, no teachers that were certified, 30 students just like…

What are you doing there? Oh, we were mostly farming. I learned everything about beekeeping, canning food, running a bakery. I did everything, all the survival skills, because the world was gonna end. But I didn’t get algebra in. I didn’t have a single English class I remember.

I mean, there weren’t even teachers really literally. So what did I learn? Nothing. I just left without a diploma. They didn’t even give up. The diploma wasn’t an official diploma from a high school that was accredited. So I didn’t even have a high school diploma. And when I went to college, yeah, when I went to college, I went up to the college.

Ahmad (19:44.718)
Oh shit.

Ahmad (19:50.286)
Oh my god.

joe lee (19:57.296)
I lived in Georgia, I drove up to Michigan, I begged the university to let me in. That was the most embarrassing thing in my life. Not accepted. You just go and you beg them and you hope. I had applied but they hadn’t accepted me. I just begged them and then for two weeks they tested me. All sorts of tests. And then they let me in. And my first test I just, I got a sleep. But so I’m self-taught. I learned how to teach myself.

Ahmad (20:17.262)
Wow.

joe lee (20:25.252)
And of course, a lot of persistence and a lot of, you know, I mean, you have to believe in yourself a little bit. But I always overdid it. Meaning if I studied something, okay, everyone else has to study three days for their test. I had to study three weeks. I would study the three weeks and I would get the top score. And I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say, no, I didn’t study. I’d say I studied three weeks. I had to. No one would even get upset at me because.

they knew my background and I was a loser, ultimate loser. So I don’t ever judge people based on their background because if something had happened to my family at that time, I would have just been a mechanic and I would have been a great one. But it doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t have been just the same person, just as intelligent. So, but I did, I worked really hard and

I did really well and after two years I took my MCAT to go to med school and I did better than the average at Harvard. And then, and then I applied to all these schools and top 20 schools I applied to and top 10, except for a couple of the big ones, I got interviews everywhere. And then I got waitlisted everywhere. And when I went to University of Chicago, the secretary tells me…

Sonny, you’re not getting in anywhere.” And I’m like, why would you say that? She goes, I’m not supposed to show you this, but I’m gonna show you your letter of recommendation. And the Pre-Med Committee Chairman at my university gave me a letter of recommendation that said Joe is an average student. I just, I was so depressed. I’m like, oh my God, yeah, cause I had a fight with him. I had a big fight with him for like half a year.

Ahmad (21:46.949)
Mmm.

joe lee (22:06.344)
And so why did I think that he would give me a good one? I didn’t think so, but I had to have one from the biology chairman at the time. And so his letter really sucked and everyone wait-listed me. I didn’t even go to my Duke. Duke was a great, you know, med school at the time. I don’t know what it is now, but I didn’t even go because I’m like, what’s the point? Everyone’s just gonna not accept me. Then University of Michigan accepted me off the wait-list at the last minute. But.

So yeah, I had an interesting history of challenging everybody, fighting when I didn’t think it was fair. And I’ve been doing that my whole life. And, you know, doing that when I was doing surgery for my patients, I couldn’t have a different approach. I mean, I really tried to be fair to them because I’m like, my whole life, I’ve been fighting for fairness. I can’t just suddenly be bad to my patients. You know, that would feel very weird to me.

Ahmad (22:38.539)
Mmm.

Mmm.

joe lee (23:01.472)
Like I expect other people to be fair to me, but I’m not going to be fair to others. So I try to be really fair. I mean, I’m not saying I’m perfect, but I did. No one has the record of 70,000 cases in a row in the U S without a LASIK claim lawsuit or settlement. It’s just an incredible record. But you know, and I’ve had complications and I’ve tried to take care of all my complications.

There was a one that I said, oh, you just have to go somewhere else and have your surgery. If they needed something and I could do it, there are times when I can’t do it. Like if they have a retinal tear, I can’t fix that because I’m not a retina surgeon. So then they have to use their insurance and go to the doctor. But anything I felt I could do or even beyond what I felt I could do, if no one else was willing to do it, I would try for them. So yeah, I mean.

Ahmad (23:36.011)
Mmm.

Ahmad (23:46.05)
Dude, that’s a fascinating, that’s fascinating. Do you know what? I think that time in Tennessee wasn’t wasted. I think you got a diploma on how to survive the zombie apocalypse. Dude, it might be, it might come in handy. Canning and growing stuff and shit like that. That’s awesome.

joe lee (24:03.168)
Well, I mean, I’ve done well as by myself. Yeah. I, uh.

Ahmad (24:07.074)
That’s amazing. And you know what? I don’t know about you, but when I was in that cult, even as a kid, as a five, six year old kid, when the person was at giving a sermon, I’d be like, what the hell is this? Like I was sitting there, everyone else is buying it hook, line and sinker. And they’d give us pamphlets and we’d have to go out in the street and go door to door and drop these pamphlets into people’s, you know, front doors. Do you know what I would do?

joe lee (24:34.974)
What, what,

Ahmad (24:35.954)
I would throw them in the bin. I would be like, I’m not doing this shit. Like, why should someone change their religion? Like, I don’t believe in this religion. I was like an eight, nine year old kid. I’m like shoving them in the bin. And I…

joe lee (24:51.479)
you’re going to figure out.

Ahmad (24:53.45)
Yeah. And I was just like, I don’t believe in this. And you know, can I tell you something really funny? Like, I left organized religion 15 years ago and I just believe in God. I just believe in God and that’s it. And I told my mom and my mom would be like, oh, I’m praying for you. I’m praying for you that you’ll return. I’m praying for you. And the funniest thing happened last year. She goes, you know what? You’re right. You know, your prayers have come true. Instead of me bringing you back,

I’m now where you are. It’s just a bloody cult.

joe lee (25:28.724)
Yeah, different. How could that make you feel?

Ahmad (25:34.706)
Yeah, credit to my mom. You know, my mom’s 72. Better late than never, man. She’s great. She just goes, you know what? It’s an absolute joke. You know what? The funniest thing is she goes, I’ve always known it was a cult. You know, I just, I just, it was just a nice community and my friends are there. But you know what? You’re right. The top’s rotten and it’s just a cult. We don’t need them. And I was like, thank God. Hallelujah.

joe lee (25:57.228)
Thank you.

Ahmad (26:02.294)
But you know, another thing is…

joe lee (26:02.836)
Well, see, my dad was a minister. We wouldn’t take that.

Ahmad (26:06.222)
Oh my God. But do you not think, do you not think when you’ve been in a cult, you can spot other cults? The attractive leadership, the charismatic leadership, you cannot question them. You have to stick to the group thinking. And if you dare to question, you’ll be ostracized and banished and shamed. And there’s always a wee bit of money and sex as well on the side. But basically…

joe lee (26:33.533)
Absolutely.

Ahmad (26:34.614)
You can just spot the shit from a mile away and I don’t know about you but there’s cults left, right and centre now buddy. They’re like, propagating everywhere.

joe lee (26:38.522)
Mm-hmm.

joe lee (26:44.453)
Yeah, I can see it because I had to live through it and my parents were there. And so it always comes down to they will always pick things that they think are really important that make them special. And they, and then other people aren’t special because of this. And the, you know, SDAs, the way something had been as grow up, the way I grew up, I thought, Oh,

Ahmad (26:46.635)
Wow.

joe lee (27:11.656)
This is the church. And we would call other people worldlings. We didn’t have to care for them because they were going to die and they were gonna burn in hell. So it was like us against them mentality that was so strong that it, even me, I believed in Hicklin and Sinker, even when I had given up, I gave up religion when I was 16 or 17. But…

Ahmad (27:18.15)
Oh.

Ahmad (27:33.986)
Yeah.

joe lee (27:40.744)
It stayed with me, that feeling. And even when I went to medical school, I remember thinking, we might make good friends. I had this feeling that they were gonna be lost. Why should I have that as a 21 year old? But of course, I got rid of all that. But it just stayed with me for a long time. That’s what happens when you’re inside a group and the group think is very strong.

and loyalty to the group means you survive and they’re going to keep you happy and they’re all going to include you in all the social activities like your mom said. But the moment you deviate from that group, how they want you to behave, you get kicked out. And see, that’s where the Dems are at right now in the US. The Dems, their groupthink is so strong. What shocked me was, I don’t know how many thousands of

Ahmad (28:15.102)
Mmm.

joe lee (28:32.768)
physicians and scientists and directorship positions and leadership positions at the CDC and NIH and FD that I reached out to, I called them up, I talked to them, I emailed them facts and everything. They were all shocked. So the first information I had that I discovered was that an antibody couldn’t be useful against COVID because our lung is mostly air, our body is mostly water.

Our lungs stay dry because of the lung barrier. The lung barrier can stop water molecules that are really tiny, 18 domes. These COVID antibodies are 8,000 times heavier. So if a water molecule looks like a baseball, the COVID antibody looks like a small car. So if this lung barrier can stop water, it’s going to stop the COVID antibody. Now, I first ran it through all my friends.

Ahmad (29:18.546)
Mmm.

Ahmad (29:26.638)
Ahem.

joe lee (29:28.216)
And all my friends were like, you know, surprised. They knew I always worked hard. And they were like a little impressed. No one thought I would be able to do anything with it. And then I talked to my mentor who taught me at USC. He was the refractive surgery director at USC. So fast forward.

He became the director of Optho at Johns Hopkins. And so I didn’t want to just call him out of the blue. I had run this through my mind thousands of times, talked to a lot of people. Then I finally approached him and called him up and explained it. And he listens to me quietly for 20 minutes, Dr. Peter McDonald, and he goes, Joe, you’re going to be going to Stockholm. And I didn’t even know what that meant. And we’ve talked, you know, from that point, two and a half, three years, we talked.

every few months. So it was a it wasn’t just a one-time conversation. He was amazed at all the information I had and he wants to write a book on my experience after this is all said and done. And last time we talked he said, Joe, they’re going to try to put you in prison. California’s getting a little crazy out there. And he goes, if they do, I’ll fly out from Baltimore and I’ll bail you out. And he’s a director of ophthalmology at Johns Hopkins.

Ahmad (30:40.951)
Hmm.

joe lee (30:41.148)
And that’s how much he thinks of what I figured out about the antibody, not being able to get into the lung. But that’s just one fact. So when I sent it into Fauci September, 2020, I sent it into every member of Congress because I thought it was important enough to stop the rollout. Fauci had the director of infectious disease, Dr. Emily R. Belding respond for him.

She responds, two page email, oh, I’m replying for Dr. Fauci, yeah, letter you sent to Dr. Fauci, which is proof that he got everything. She tries to, she uses one word. She says, the antibiotic crosses by trans-udation. You remember that word, exudate and trans-udate from med school? Exudate means, oh, you got an infection of…

Ahmad (31:27.714)
Yeah.

joe lee (31:32.976)
a weeping wound that has cell cellular material plus a transudate is just clear wood. That’s like a transudate. You’re telling me that the COVID antibody crosses this lung barrier by a process called transudation. And she referenced the article. And the gentleman that wrote that article, he himself

Ahmad (31:37.101)
Yeah.

joe lee (32:00.488)
says transudation is a simple diffusion process. And a large molecule doesn’t diffuse across lung barriers. And that’s all she had. So I responded to her with 73 pages, explaining every aspect of this whole issue that it would never cross, that your hypotheses for your COVID vaccine was a neutralizing antibody in the lung airspace.

And if you can’t figure out how it gets in that airspace, it’s like pharmacology, what drug development 101 means. The drug has to be in the space where you think it needs to be to work. If it can’t get in the space, it’s not going to work. It can’t work by magic. And her one response was, it gets across by transudation. No. So I was upset. I responded with 73 pages.

I put a U.S. copyright on it. I sent that to thousands of people, directors, and I would sometimes call them up and say, please reply to me so I know you got the information. So there was one epidemiologist at the CDC, I talked to her, she wasn’t happy about it, but she understood it. So as soon as I sent it, she responded, yes, I received the information, thank you, I moved up the chain of command. Nothing happened, all right?

I mean, if your hypothesis is a neutralizing antibody in the lung, and I show it cannot get into the lung, you’ve got a major problem on your hands. And what they would always fall back on is, they would always fall back on, Dr. Lee, our clinical data looks great. Our FDA clinical trial looks great. I said, read my paper. I explain why, because you think your vaccine worked. And I’m not, I’ll say.

Ahmad (33:24.174)
Thank you.

Ahmad (33:33.099)
You got a major problem.

Ahmad (33:50.786)
So.

joe lee (33:53.308)
I won’t deny it. I will agree that your clinicians, your researchers acted ethically and that the data that they collected for the clinical trial is like they say. I’ll agree to all that. But it wasn’t via a neutralizing antibody that has no chance of getting in. So here’s my hypothesis on why you got good data. You got good data because the moment you gave that mRNA vaccine, the body had a reaction. People had muscle aches.

Well, yeah, because the main side effect of the mRNA vaccine is induction of chemokines like interferon, which happens to be antiviral. If your side effect was the reason why this thing worked, it’s not really a vaccine. It’s not going to last very long. It’ll last a few weeks to a couple of months at most. And I said, look at J&J. They only had a 50% efficacy. Why?

because you just shocked, you just tricked the body into making interferon one time. Look at AstraZeneca, you gave two shots, you had a 75% efficacy, then your mRNA vaccines had a 95%. Why? Because you give an injection, the mRNA shocks the system, tricks the body into making interferon. The mRNA becomes spike antigen, again tricks the body into making interferon. You give the booster.

the booster becomes that four times you tricked your body into making interferon. And that side effect, if that side effect is the reason why it worked, what you need to do is compare the mRNA vaccine to the flu vaccine. The flu vaccine doesn’t make a COVID antibody, but if it works against COVID just as well in your new study that I am proposing you do, because there is no other option. Once they explain to you that antibody has no path into the lung.

With one word transudation, you don’t get to vaccinate 10 billion people. Especially when I spelled everything out for you and explained, no, no. Your hypothesis is wrong. You thought it was a neutralizing antibody. Since your antibody can’t get into the lung, you have to look at my hypothesis now on why your clinical data looks so good. Your clinical data looks so good because the main side effect of the mRNA vaccine is chemokine induction.

joe lee (36:12.964)
Everyone knows you get muscle aches. That’s from the interferon. So the flu vaccine also gives you muscle aches because it will also trick your body into making interferon. I’ve… Go ahead.

Ahmad (36:22.286)
By the way, can I just check? Isn’t this the case with most vaccines though? I’ve looked at it and you’re sticking in aluminium and all these adjuvants. The adjuvants are what causes the cytotoxic effects inside the cells. Cells die, then your immune system comes along to clean up the dead cells.

And it’s like there’s a bomb gone off and then all your, you know, the paramedics, the ambulance and your body come to the scene, start tidying up all the dead tissues, try and sort out, you know, the aluminium and everything. And that’s your immune response. That’s not the immune response to their so-called antigen. You know, cause I’ve always said to people, why do we need adjuvants? You know, if the proposed action of vaccines is you put in this antigen, you put in this substance,

and your body will go, hey, you’re not meant to be here. We’re going to create antibodies to you. And so next time I see you, that’s it, straight into prison. Why do you need an adjuvant? And they go, oh, well, no, if we don’t use an adjuvant, there’s no reaction. The immune system doesn’t do anything. So the whole immune reaction is always to the adjuvants. It’s crazy. I’ve never really understood it. And it sounds like now these vaccines, they’re not making antibodies. They’re

joe lee (37:40.784)
Yeah, none of them. They don’t really know what they’re doing.

Ahmad (37:45.954)
Sorry, say that again.

joe lee (37:48.352)
They don’t really know what they’re doing, so you’re correct about that. See, adjuvants stir up the immune system. Well, sometimes the adjuvants are so strong, your body can decide, well, you know what? That cartilage of yours, I’m gonna start attacking it now. And that’s what we call an autoimmune disorder, right? So not everyone has an autoimmune disorder right away. Sometimes it develop.

Sometimes a bad infection can start an autoimmune disorder. And that’s because any infection can act as an adjuvant and trick your whole system into saying, we’re gonna start fighting things. Sometimes they start fighting the wrong thing, ourself. And so adjuvants are very dangerous things. Now,

You know, if you’ve got a bunch of bacteria in your body, you want to fight that off. And if you have the side effect of the body somehow gets tricked and thinks, my joints are bad too, I’m gonna fight that. You gotta take it, sorry. You gotta defeat that infection. But when you don’t have an infection, why are you going to trick your body into fighting your own body? They don’t know what they’re doing. It’s when you start going down.

Ahmad (38:59.243)
Yeah, I don’t think…

joe lee (39:03.648)
Go ahead.

Ahmad (39:03.806)
Yeah. So you’re saying once you start going down.

joe lee (39:09.252)
Once you start going down this rabbit hole, you know, it took me a while, but now, you know, after I was off Twitter, after I came up with the string theory, what I’ve been realizing the whole four years was that antibodies were never meant to help us fight viruses. Never.

I go back to the very first vaccine, the smallpox vaccine, right? Edward Jenner, 200 years ago. Okay, there’s a, he thinks, oh, these milkmaids say that if they get cowpox, they won’t get smallpox. Okay, so that’s hearsay. He takes that, he injects a boy with small, cowpox, waits a few months, and then gives the boy smallpox.

says the boy did fine. We know today that cowpox and smallpox antigens are completely utterly different and he could never have immunized that boy for smallpox with cowpox. It was impossible. So here’s my theory on why supposedly people have long immunity to smallpox. Okay so if you’re a milkmaid

and you’re cute and you’re young and you have nice skin, you have good nutrition, and if you get cowpox you’re not happy because it’s ruining your skin. So you all slowly start realizing hey if one girl has smallpox stay away from her cowpox stay away from her because you might get the cowpox on your skin. So then they all start staying away. Isolation is the best thing known to man to prevent viral transmission.

And the milkmaids figured that out. That’s why they probably didn’t get smallpox. Because you know, if you’ve ever seen a smallpox patient pictures, the lesions look grotesque. Any woman in marrying age who gets that will never get married. It will ruin their life, not only during the act of disease, but when they heal. You’ve got horrible pinning scars.

joe lee (41:33.788)
So where is the memory? The memory is in the freaking brain. They’re never gonna get near another smallpox patient again, are they? And then to me, they keep saying, well, how come they have smallpox antibodies later sometimes? We know viruses can sometimes insert their DNA into our genome. Let’s say there’s a lymphocyte that somehow the smallpox virus got in. And let’s say this is a long living lymphocyte.

and it somehow got into a place that gene got into that part of that lymphocyte, it keeps making RNA for the smallpox antigen, you keep making smallpox antigen, then your body will make smallpox antibodies. But it has nothing to do with how they recovered from smallpox. It has nothing to do with why they didn’t get smallpox again. They didn’t get smallpox again because they didn’t get near another smallpox patient. So that’s my theory.

So then every major like.

Ahmad (42:34.165)
So if antibodies are not to attack viruses and deal with viruses, what do these antibodies do then?

joe lee (42:45.328)
Well, I always back people up when I say, look, think about it like this. Have humans or smartest humans ever made a medicine against a bacteria that also works against the virus? No.

Evolution cannot make us a medication that works really good against the bacteria. That’s also going to work against the virus. Why? Because they’re different enemies. You know, when I have mice or ants, I don’t call my 911 my police officers. I call my pest control organ guy. Different enemies require a completely different strategy. You’re not going to have

a security guy that takes care of burglars and mice. You’re just not. In our body, we’re also not going to, antibodies are a medication that evolution made for us. And they’re really good against bacteria. They’re not gonna work against viruses. But will they get made? See, if you have a pathogen in the blood,

This B lymphocyte is never going to figure out if that pathogen is a bacteria or a virus. This B lymphocyte is not going to say, look, I’ve got to figure this out first. And then if it’s a bacteria, I’ll make it up, pump out antibodies. But if it’s a virus, I’m going to chill. This B lymphocyte is not sentient. We can barely figure out the difference between a virus and a pathogen in the lab. This one cell will never be able to do that.

If you can’t imagine a scenario whereby this B lymphocyte could actually figure that out, it can’t do it. Because it can’t do it, what’s it going to do? Just pump it out. And what happens when it pumps out antibodies against bacteria? Very, very, very helpful. What happens when it pumps out antibodies against viruses? Doesn’t make a difference. It’s a side effect. All it is a side effect.

joe lee (44:56.188)
When we have antibodies in our blood against our joints, do we say that’s beneficial? No, it’s a side effect. When we have antibodies in our blood against HIV, do we say that’s beneficial? No, it’s just a side effect because it’s B lymphocyte can never figure out what’s truly an extracellular pathogen.

Ahmad (45:07.616)
Mmm.

joe lee (45:17.776)
And so that’s why we put up with that side effect, because the benefit, the main effect of the antibody is fighting extracellular pathogens, and it’s very good at that, and very useful and very helpful. That means it would not.

Ahmad (45:30.53)
So what about the fact that, what about the fact that, you know, they say your B lymphocytes create the antibodies and they attach or alert the T lymphocytes to kill the pathogens. That not how it works?

joe lee (45:49.52)
Okay, all good. All good. But what I’m saying is, one of the things I’ve tried to teach my kids about logic and how to think, you know, I’m a really good test taker. Remember, I had this horrible high school experience, but I became a really, really good test taker. So how did I do that? I make questions easier for myself. I find a way to make the question easier for myself.

Ahmad (45:58.882)
Mm.

Ahmad (46:04.266)
Matt, yeah.

Ahmad (46:08.671)
Mm.

Mmm.

joe lee (46:15.356)
So for example, you’ve got a five kilogram ball and a six kilogram ball going down a slope of 30 degrees, 10 feet on a ramp. Which one gets to the bottom first? I mean, I was really good at physics. I was taught by two letter grades, but which one gets to the bottom first? I can figure this out without math. What I do in my mind is I do this. The smaller five kilogram, I make it to a tiny BB. The six kilogram, that’s bigger, I make it to a mountain.

Try holding a mountain and then releasing it. It’s not gonna move right away. There’s inertia. So the little BB, you let it go, it zips down and it beats a mountain, right? That’s how I do all my thought experiments. You have to change the question so it’s easier for your mind to handle and then the truth manifests. So with the antibody for viruses, I say, think of it this way.

joe lee (47:16.84)
I say RNAs are what destroyed viral RNA inside the cell. You say antibodies are critically important. Let’s come up with two scenarios. One scenario where a person has no antibodies. Let’s see what happens to this person. Oh, we don’t need to even have, we don’t need to imagine a hypothetical because in the year 2020, no one had a COVID-19 antibody.

Ahmad (47:43.715)
Mmm.

joe lee (47:44.316)
And yet 99% of us healed in two weeks without COVID antibodies in our blood. Okay, the other hypothetical is no RNAs inside the cell. But you have a lot of COVID antibodies. And those COVID antibodies can block really well. Okay, so how well can they block? I’ll give you 90%. So you get a loading dose of a thousand viruses. You’re blocking 90%.

So you got 100 that get into cells somewhere. Each one that gets into a cell becomes 50,000. So now you have 50,000 times 100. You have 5 million. You started with a thousand. You blocked 90% of the viruses. But now you’ve got in one cycle, you’ve got 5 million viruses. That’s just one cycle a day. That’s one cycle. Let’s take it to the next day.

Ahmad (48:37.629)
Mm, mm, mm.

joe lee (48:42.228)
Five million. Your antibodies are still working really well. You blocked 90% of them. You have 500,000 and they all infect cells. And each cell can make up to 50,000 copies. So 500,000 times 50,000.

25 billion, I don’t know the numbers, 250, it starts getting crazy in about eight cycles. Year one solid virus. You see, when you stretch out the experiment in your mind, the thought experiment, you can see the foolishness because see, 2020 was the biggest experiment in the history of medicine. 20 million Americans got COVID, not a single one had a COVID-19 antibody. And 99% of them healed.

Ahmad (49:09.399)
Yeah.

Ahmad (49:25.951)
Really?

Ahmad (49:30.806)
Really? None of them had code?

joe lee (49:32.562)
It’s.

In 2020, there wasn’t a vaccine. No one had a prior COVID-19 infection. You couldn’t have had a COVID-19 antibody.

Ahmad (49:51.935)
Yeah.

joe lee (49:54.836)
See, this is how bizarre it is. If you don’t.

Ahmad (49:56.842)
So it’s funny, like in the UK, there’s something called the Office of National Statistics. And in March, 2023, there’s a page, antibodies against coronavirus. The presence of antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 suggests that a person has been previously infected with COVID-19. In the UK, the proportion of adults with antibodies at or above certain limit remains high.

In the week beginning 13th of February 2023, the percentage of adults estimated to have antibodies at the 800 nanogram millimeter level were 77.7% in England. Where did they get that from then? 77%, they’re saying had antibodies.

joe lee (50:42.877)
No, no, no. I’m saying in the year 2020, when you just quoted a 2023 study, didn’t you? Didn’t you quote a 2023 study? 2020, when there was no COVID.

Ahmad (50:48.81)
Mmm. Yeah, yeah.

joe lee (50:55.728)
No one had a COVID antibody. How could you have had a COVID antibody if COVID didn’t exist, right? Now, people get really weird about this and they say, well, no, people had COVID antibodies in 2018 because there was some endemic coronavirus. And what I say to them is then, everyone had a first experience with a coronavirus.

when they had no coronavirus antibodies, right? There was always a first time, like, okay, a six month old baby who had never been outside, who doesn’t have a mother who had been sick for two years, so couldn’t have had any antibodies that she gave the baby. This six month old baby had never had exposure to anything.

How does a baby heal from COVID? But it does.

Antibodies aren’t relevant. And the biggest head fake in the history of medicine was to believe that an antibody was useful against the virus because you found it. What I am saying is, in the year 2020, we’re pretty sure that 99.9% of the human, U.S. population did not have a COVID-19 antibody, and yet 99% of them healed. And what I’m saying is they healed via RNAs.

RNAase enzymes, okay. If they heal because of RNAase.

joe lee (52:31.848)
The COVID antibody wasn’t even there. How could it have helped them heal? Something that wasn’t even there. And then remember, to have helped anyone, it would have needed a time machine. That’s one. Two, for the COVID antibody, when it finally arrives, it can’t even get into the lung because of the lung barrier. So antibodies work.

Ahmad (52:52.386)
No, no, I get that. I get the lung barrier thing. So the thing is, I’ve spoken to a lot of people who actually don’t believe that one, there was a novel virus. They don’t give a damn about the leak virus, lab leak, this, that. They’re saying there was nothing novel about this virus. The human species had seen this virus before, recognized it, and knew how to deal with it. And yeah, there might have been subtle changes here and there, but there’s nothing novel about it.

It was no more lethal than a bad flu season and it was circulating a lot earlier than 2020. I’m just saying, by the way, I mean, by the bay, like a lot of people have seen that.

joe lee (53:32.576)
No, no, so whatever I hear that I say, okay, then let’s say it was circulating in 2005. Let’s say it was circulating in 2000. So whoever had got that not novel coronavirus in 2000, they had the, that person had a first time of getting it without antibodies in their system. Right. And they still healed. Right. We don’t need antibodies to heal from RNA viruses.

Ahmad (53:54.011)
Yeah, yeah.

Ahmad (54:05.748)
Okay.

joe lee (54:06.076)
It’s a weird concept, but it’s completely true because, you know, RNA viruses came before DNA cells were evolved. So DNA cells, that first primordial DNA cell that used DNA as information, had to be able to handle RNA viruses. And if it could only handle it half the time, because remember, one cell is not going to have antibodies around it. If this cell…

Ahmad (54:08.235)
Yep, yep.

joe lee (54:33.832)
can’t handle the RNA virus, this cell is not going to grow and evolve into a tiny little mouse. And this mouse isn’t ever going to evolve into a human. If only half the cells can figure out how to handle this virus without previous exposure, they all handle it.

Like 99.99% of the time. Like, okay, three month old baby, human infant, with a mother who’s never had COVID. Baby has no history of infection. Clears billions of viruses from its body. It didn’t do it by chance. Because if it did it by chance…

If it cleared these viruses by chance, sometimes it wouldn’t get it right. And then half the cells would all have-

Ahmad (55:28.549)
So do you think it’s ribonuclease, RNAs that destroys these RNA viruses?

joe lee (55:37.664)
Well, this is the biggest collective brain fart in the history of humanity for medicine and science because I’m saying, once, because we didn’t have COVID antibodies. Okay, we had some unrelated, you know, a tad trace of it somewhere in our body somewhere. But like when I got infected in the spring of 2020, the virus had a heyday and infected as many of my lung cells as possible because there weren’t antibodies to block it. So then how did I heal?

Ahmad (55:49.285)
Mmm.

joe lee (56:05.756)
No one has a hypothesis for how we healed. So I’ll direct everyone’s thinking. The virus infected all my lung cells, or a lot of them. And I survived pretty easily. Now, once the viral RNA is inside my cell, that viral RNA is the enemy. The way I think we healed is we destroyed the enemy.

So my hypothesis is we destroy that viral RNA with RNase, which is perfectly designed to destroy RNA. It doesn’t matter if it’s viral RNA, human RNA, vaccine RNA, RNA’s enzymes destroy RNA. It’s like saying my paper shredder can handle all sorts of paper. But if you print an Empire State building on that paper, my paper shredder can’t handle it. No, it can.

RNA is just strips of information. Whether it’s viral or ours, it’s just strips of information with different information encoded in it. So RNAs can handle that.

Ahmad (57:09.937)
Mmm.

joe lee (57:15.026)
See?

Ahmad (57:16.67)
Okay, right. Joe, my head’s hurting a little bit. I get it, I get it, I get this theory, but the thing is, man, I’m just too, I’m too simple to understand this complicated stuff. But I get it, I get this, I get this. But you know what?

joe lee (57:17.544)
You know, all of this was a horrible…

joe lee (57:31.309)
There’s a reason why this is important. There’s a reason. There’s a reason why this is important because you’re a surgeon. If you have a brand new assistant who doesn’t know what your goals are, do you think they help you very much?

Ahmad (57:43.05)
Yeah. No.

joe lee (57:46.356)
And if they keep handing you a scalpel when you don’t want it, are you happy with your new assistant? The only way your assistant can help you is if they know what you want to do and what your goals are. So I’m saying the human body, how did it heal us from COVID? If you know that, and it healed 99% of us, if you know how it did it, you can facilitate it. I am saying the human body used RNAase to destroy the viral RNA inside ourselves. And once you know that, how can you help it?

Ahmad (57:50.253)
No.

Ahmad (57:57.27)
Mmm.

Ahmad (58:05.279)
Yeah.

Ahmad (58:13.218)
We don’t need vaccines.

joe lee (58:17.044)
But then how can you help the human body? See, RNAs destroys our RNA too, and then we can’t grow. We can’t make more protein and grow.

If we don’t eat, RNase is activated. And then it destroys viral RNA and rRNA. So you never have, when you’re 85 and you get COVID or the flu, you’ll know food can kill you for the next three days. Then you won’t eat and you won’t die of COVID or the flu. Because once you understand what the human body did, you can facilitate it. And that is the only way you can facilitate it.

As a surgeon, the only way the assistant can help you is if they know what your goals are. The only way we can help the human body…

Ahmad (59:03.138)
So that’s funny you should say that because, yeah. What’s the way to help the human body? Because I agree, like when you become sick, when you have a cold, when you have a flu, you shouldn’t eat. You rest, you stop eating, get some fresh sunlight, take some vitamin D, drink lots of water, and that’s it. And when you start getting hungry again, start eating. I mean, whenever you get sick, you stop eating. Yeah.

joe lee (59:12.616)
You know what it is. You have to know what it is.

joe lee (59:29.22)
I reverse engineered this.

I reverse engineering this because every toddler that’s sick, what do they do? Your children, when they get sick, what do they do? They get fussy and eat less. Evolution already found the answer. I just had to find out why was that the reason? Why do they keep eating less? So I found the reason because I knew that, okay, when toddlers get sick, do they look for sour candy? I don’t think vitamin C is relevant because if it was relevant, evolution would have found that.

Ahmad (59:39.617)
Yeah.

joe lee (01:00:01.108)
because it has time on its hands. And all the babies that didn’t like, you know, to look for lemons when they were sick, they would have died and only the lemon loving babies would have existed. And that’s, so did they look for that? No. Did they look to crawl into the sun? No, because see, the sun is always there. And if vitamin D was that.

Ahmad (01:00:20.194)
So what’s the answer? Just too fast. So what’s the answer? Too fast?

joe lee (01:00:24.672)
The answer is just to fast. Yes. It is an incredible cure. I was really sick three days ago. I fasted for two days straight. I had to study my lungs more than anyone on earth because I got sick so often. And so I was prepared when 2000 hit, 2020 went January. I solved a lot of this back then because I was sick a lot.

And I had to figure it out because I always told my patients.

Ahmad (01:00:52.654)
Why are you getting sick all alo- why- why are you getting- why are you getting sick alo-

joe lee (01:00:58.9)
Well, I have a young one, two young ones, but I also, when I moved from Georgia to California for my residency, I got this bad cold and I had a dry hacking cough. I didn’t feel sick. I just had this nagging hacking cough for six months. And that kept happening to me. And I mean, I studied everything. I thought maybe…

Maybe because I went spelunking, you’re at risk for histoplasmosis. I got tested for all sorts of things. Nothing showed up. But I think I had some kind of lung damage from that history back then. And that’s why I’m more prone to infections, respiratory infections. But also, I touch my face a lot. And people who touch their face a lot, you can much more easily get the virus, right? If you notice the people who say I never get sick, they…

Women don’t like to touch their face because they have makeup on and they’re much less likely to get sick for that reason, right? But the point being the cure is pretty simple. The cure is not to eat and Look at oshox five million jews died horrible deaths

They live through these European winters in these camps without shelter, without clothing, without heating. And you would have thought the flu would have wiped everyone out and how come it didn’t? Because the flu virus cannot grow when you don’t eat.

joe lee (01:02:30.796)
see in our evolution there was some.

Ahmad (01:02:31.694)
Okay, okay.

Ahmad (01:02:35.874)
No, okay, I get that. So, let’s talk about string theory.

joe lee (01:02:36.916)
Get so fast because it’s too boring.

joe lee (01:02:42.812)
Yeah, string theory is a fascinating one. So I got kicked off Twitter for all intents and purposes. They took away my 45,000 followers and all my tweets. And I wasn’t, I was depressed for a month in March around that time. Well, I was writing a thread on RFK Jr. I was writing a thread on somebody and I don’t know if that was a reason, but right in there in the middle of that, I got kicked off.

Ahmad (01:02:53.506)
Why do they do that? Why do they kick you off?

joe lee (01:03:06.152)
So I wasn’t very happy, but then I took time to reflect and I started organizing all my thoughts. And I wrote a 156 page letter that I’d been sending out to big pharma and pharmaceutical companies and any large pharmacy chains to put them on notice. But while I was doing that, I kept asking myself one question, why are they giving the booster? Because, you know, two months.

One, within a month or two after their first vaccine, they were giving a booster. I said, but you already have a ton of antibodies from the first vaccine. Why would you give a booster? Why would you give a booster? And then it started dawning on me. Because the booster is antigen. You have a bunch of antibodies. You’re going to add antigen? Aren’t they going to clump? And that thought just kept going around my mind for a couple weeks. And then I, and then the string happened. I’ll show you what the string is.

The string is when you have the first vaccine, you’ll have a lot of antibodies. So here’s an antibody. With the booster, you include antigen.

joe lee (01:04:19.452)
Now the antigen is stuck. But remember the antigen has a backside. And you’re going to have to antibiotic to that.

joe lee (01:04:29.372)
stick no. But that antibody has another arm.

joe lee (01:04:35.368)
and the bottom of the antigen can stick to that. And now the top is exposed.

and that antibody can stick to the top. But it has another arm, it sticks, and that starts forming a string. And you get this huge long meshwork of antibodies.

joe lee (01:05:01.104)
Now, you know, when I first came up with this…

Ahmad (01:05:02.05)
Do you think those are the big, long, stringy clots they’re looking at? Do you think those are the big, long, stringy clots?

joe lee (01:05:07.612)
I do. Yes. Because you made a ton of that.

Ahmad (01:05:10.954)
Has anybody done any histopathology of those clots?

joe lee (01:05:18.464)
Uh, you know, they will. It’s not my duty to do that. Whoever, somebody’s got to do it. They’re making the money off it. I showed them what’s happening. They have to do it. Now the question is, how likely is this? So the first antibody. You are definitely making the antibodies from the first vaccine. You are definitely putting antigen in with your booster vaccine.

So in this solution, this blood, you have antibodies and you have antigen. Now, what are the chances that this antibody does not stick to this antigen? Practically zero. It’s almost guaranteed to stick. That’s the whole science. That our antibodies do stick to the antigen. What are the chances that this antibody sticks to a virus, a spike on a virus? One in a million?

One in a hundred thousand, one in ten thousand, one in a thousand. I don’t care. It’s really small. Some people don’t even get sick for three months. Some people don’t get exposed. Zero chance then, right? But the chance of this antibody from the first vaccine sticking to this antigen from the booster vaccine is like guaranteed, isn’t it? So this is the main effect of the COVID vaccine and the booster vaccine. This is the main effect.

to cause strings. After I, you know, when I discovered this, I finished up the paper, I started sending it out. I got back on Twitter with a account I had started a long time ago, I had never used, about three, four months ago. And I started putting all this up. And one of the followers found, in the vaccinologist literature, in immunology literature, in their textbooks, they have this.

is called precipitans. If you Google precipitin and antibody, you’ll find millions of results. It’s in their textbooks. They describe exactly this. If you put a polyclonal antibody into solution with its antigen, it will clump into precipitans that are visible. And to be visible, it has to be at least 0.1 millimeter, which is 100,000 nanometers.

Ahmad (01:07:16.986)
Hmm.

joe lee (01:07:40.312)
An internal diameter of a capillary is a little bit bigger than red blood cells, so it’s about 10,000 nanometers. And precipitants are 100,000 nanometers.

Ahmad (01:07:47.202)
What’s it called? Is it a vaccine, is it a vaccine precipitant or something else? What’s it called?

joe lee (01:07:53.352)
No, they just call it precipitin. P-R-E-C-I-P-I-T-I-N, precipitin. So what they didn’t do is they didn’t apply this science because they say you put a, have a beaker of saline and you put in polyclonal antibodies and you put in antigen and they will clump into precipitins. You just replace that saline with blood. They just never applied their science.

to their vaccines.

joe lee (01:08:28.904)
Yeah, it’s bizarre. The question that exposes how stupid vaccinologists are is this. You gave a first vaccine. The patient has polyclonal antibodies in the blood. Why are you giving the booster at one, two, three, four months? Why are you doing that? Because you’re adding antigen into the blood. If you have antibody in the blood and you add antigen, they stick. They’ll stick in this pattern. They’ll stick and grow.

The precipitin is visible, barely visible is 100,000 nanometers, but that’s the smallest precipitin. It could be a lot bigger. And then this meshwork in the blood, won’t it trap platelets? Yes. And then every FC region of an antibody activates platelet FC receptors. Once platelet receptors are activated, they start initiating coagulation.

And then you get fibrinogen and fibrin. And so there’s going to be a massive stuff within this clot, right? There’s going to be antibodies, antigen, fibrinogen, fibrin, all linked together. Red blood cells in there, trapped. Everything’s going to be trapped in there, right? So do I really care what the histopathology is?

Ahmad (01:09:41.25)
You know what?

Ahmad (01:09:45.638)
this warrants investigation, at least. I mean, I know you call it string theory and I’m glad you’re saying that because that’s the whole point, it’s a theory and you have to then explore it and investigate it. Because one thing we know, I mean, the name of these mRNA jabs are clock shots. You know, it’s commonly, they’re called clock shots. We keep seeing clocks everywhere. Now I think we’re also seeing other things from these shots. You know, there’s a massive

joe lee (01:09:46.752)
Go ahead.

Ahmad (01:10:15.17)
two odd page, I don’t know if it’s more than that, adverse reactions running into the thousands. I mean, I think the top ones are clots and neurovascular, sorry, neurological, autoimmune. I mean, there’s other effects as well of these shots. We don’t know if the LNP, I spoke to someone who works with the LNPs and she said they’re toxic, you know, the lipid nanoparticles. So they themselves are damaging to cells.

And who knows, like these shots might have more than one mechanism by which they’re harmful. But one thing we are aware of is that they, they’re causing shot, they’re causing clots and there’s a number of, I don’t know if you know this, but people who work in mortuaries and there’s one famous guy in the UK and one in the, in the States who keep posting images of these coagulatives stringy things. And they go, never in our 20, 30 year experience, have we seen these, you know?

joe lee (01:10:50.107)
Here’s the other message.

joe lee (01:11:08.506)
one in the UK.

joe lee (01:11:14.528)
Who’s the guy in the UK? Do you remember?

Ahmad (01:11:16.866)
Um, Looney, I think it’s Mr. Looney. Looney, yeah.

joe lee (01:11:24.616)
So here’s, this is the issue with this. I call it the string theory. I didn’t know about the precipitance when I called it the string theory. I call this the string mechanism a lot because there is no refuting it. I mean, I have run this by the director, the chief editor of the Journal of Immunology or Dr. Ortiz, emailed him everything, tweeted him everything.

He had no response. Two weeks later, he blocked me. I have this on the American Academy of Pediatrics Twitter homepage, 1,000 plus posts. And I even call them baby killers for 90 days and they can’t block me. Everyone knows on Twitter, you can block whatever you, if you don’t like somebody, you can block them. So I call them baby killers. Why don’t they block me? Because I say,

This is the issue with this. You either provide a scientific rebuttal for the string mechanism, because all I’m saying is, you’re putting an antibody and antigen in a solution, the blood, and they’re going to stick. Where are you going to refute that? What part of that are you going to refute? It’s even in your textbooks. What part will you refute? There’s nothing to refute. Then if you don’t refute it, it sounds like it’s true.

In the U.S., pediatricians get their legal immunity via the PrEP Act. The PrEP Act gives them immunity, but the PrEP Act, I don’t remember. I don’t know, but if you look at the PREP, if you look it up, if you look up the PrEP Act, they’re given legal immunity for their vaccine activities, but there’s an exception, willful misconduct.

Ahmad (01:13:02.827)
What does that stand for? Prep act. Okay.

joe lee (01:13:18.644)
So if I expose a huge mistake with their vaccine paradigm and they delete it, that’s warful misconduct, then they lose their legal immunity. And pediatricians are all about vaccinations and they need their immunity because they don’t have insurance for it. They need their immunity. And if they delete my posts, they lose their immunity.

So a thousand plus posts for 90 days calling them baby killers. I’m a board certified medical, I have my medical license in California and I’m actively practicing and I’m able to call the organization of pediatrics in the U S baby killers and they’re afraid to block me. Oh, they lose their legal immunity. So this is how close the anti-vax movement is right now.

to ending, this doesn’t apply just to COVID vaccines. This applies to half the vaccines on earth. Every vaccine that has an antigen small enough to connect to antibodies, it can do that. This doesn’t just affect vaccines. Meaning when you have any kind of polyclinic, for example, hepatitis B, we follow chronic hepatitis B by how much hepatitis B surface antigen is in the blood.

Because when the liver cell is infected, it produces a lot of surface antigen. It doesn’t always produce the intact virus. A lot of surface antigen. It’s in the blood. And then you form antibodies, and you form more antigen, and they all start clumping. It goes into the kidney, clots it off. They have kidney damage. No one explained kidney damage from chronic hepatitis B. They just said, oh, somehow the immune system is doing it. The immune system is doing it by precipitans.

Now, half the vaccines on Earth will be gone with this. And the American Academy of Pediatrics doesn’t have an answer for 90 days. The chief editor at Journal of Immunology doesn’t have an answer. Nature, Magnolia Skipper, she blocked me because I wrote a long thread on this.

joe lee (01:15:31.74)
on nature, I’ve been posting on nature for a while. And I always warn everyone, if you do blog, you’re going to lose your legal immunity. But nature doesn’t think they’re directly involved. Pediatricians are scared to death. Two Congresswomen in the US who are pediatricians, I said them all this, and there’s this weird law in the US called depraved heart, depraved indifference. Meaning, if you care so little about the sacredness of life that you…

get really drunk and you drive and you kill somebody, that’s murder. Same kind of thing here. If I give a pediatrician all this information, well, it looks like your vaccines are killing babies, or damaging babies, and you’re indifferent and you ignore it, guess what? Depraved indifference murder laws apply, and they can be charged with murder in the future. So I’m sending all this information, right? Because I’m thinking, at least one, even if you don’t wanna do the right thing, maybe you wanna save your own life.

Ahmad (01:16:04.846)
Mmm.

joe lee (01:16:31.972)
Right? And maybe you don’t want to go to prison, because I am setting the path exactly to show how you will go to prison if you don’t do the right thing. Right now, I’m finishing up a threat to the California Medical Board. Most California physicians who are anti-vaxxers are afraid of the Medical Board. I’m not afraid of them. I’m like, I sent you information two and a half years ago. I called you misinformation, what, 15 months ago.

I still have my license and you guys are afraid of me. I talked to your chief legal counsel and I told you guys that you were the information Because anybody doesn’t even get it along and no mother would vaccinate their children if they knew that and you’re not Letting california physicians know now you’re the misinformation It’s interesting how i’m spinning it turning everything around on them, right? But this string theory Is so strong half the vaccines on earth get destroyed then they’re

Ahmad (01:17:20.833)
Dude, just take one second, one second, one second. Look at this, look at this.

Ahmad (01:17:27.959)
What the hell is this is it look at these strings look at these stringy things

It’s insane.

You know, this is, this is, I don’t know if you know this American mortuary funeral director and embalmer, Richard, Richard Hirschman.

joe lee (01:17:46.916)
I think Hirschman just followed me. I think Richard Hirschman, I think he just followed me.

joe lee (01:17:54.591)
Cough

Ahmad (01:17:57.078)
Dude, this is pretty damning. This is damning. And I’m not saying you’re 100% right, but it’s bloody compelling. I mean, I’m just, you know, I’m a simple guy listening to what you’re saying. And I’m telling you, I’m like, this is serious. This needs serious investigation. Why is it that this isn’t being promoted by some of the other big names out there? And like, I’m the first, you know, the first I’m hearing of it is like from you now.

joe lee (01:17:57.558)
So.

joe lee (01:18:06.867)
I’m saying…

joe lee (01:18:29.596)
Well, I don’t want to put you at legal risk for me talking about all these other anti-vax leaders, but what happened was I want their names, but what happened is this So I reached out to Senator Ron Johnson’s staff over two years ago And they were fascinated with all my information and I have this incredible paper trail with copyrights and certified letters and emails Up the wazoo and they were fascinated because I have the best paper trail on earth to put Fauci in prison

Ahmad (01:18:35.99)
Yeah, don’t name names.

joe lee (01:18:59.228)
with responses from Fauci’s team. And so when Senator Ron Johnson’s on, I’m like, they’re the person for people for it. Senator Ron Johnson’s a little crazy himself. Why can’t he accept something, you know, this isn’t even crazy. This is all he had to do. I told his staff, all he has to do is say, hey, this guy, this doctor has some crazy accusations against you guys. And what’s your rebuttal? Because he says to anybody, can’t even get into the lung. You have to have a scientific rebuttal for him.

Okay, so then when Senator Ron Johnson’s team, when they got all my information, I had chats with them on the phone and it looked really positive, and then they talked to their doctors. Everything ended. And their doctors were some of the big anti-vax, COVID-vax leaders. And I didn’t put all this together until after. And then one of the really big guys, I sent his lawyer all my information.

and his lawyer realized it was important enough to send it to the big guy. So the big guy gets it. And he’s fascinated enough with it and interested and excited enough to forward it to all his dirty dozen.

joe lee (01:20:13.652)
So they all had it. No. Then it stopped again. But I have that paper trail because I was cc’d on that email. I emailed the attorney. The attorney emailed it to the big guy. The big guy emails it to all his group of doctors who are a lot of the leaders in this movement. And that was two years ago. And then it all ended again. So.

Controlled opposition is all a thing. I didn’t even know what the word meant when I started talking to them all, right? I was just trying to get the information out there. People sometimes accuse me of wanting social media fame. I’m like, no one had even heard of me before, except November of 2022.

because I never got on Twitter. I never did anything. All I try to do is reach out to all the directors, make all the phone calls. And I was working in the dark for two and a half, three years. And then I get on Twitter because it was the last resort for me. Cause I’m like, I’m at wit’s end. I got kicked off my professional forums, my LASIK forums, cause I even went there. And my opening was somebody said, well, the COVID vaccine works. I don’t care how it works. I’m like, no, it matters how it works.

And he got into a big thing and then he got all his friends to bully me. And 10 of them just kept bullying me, calling me a flatterer, making fun of me. And then they kicked me off. This is my LASIK professional form. That after that, I’m like, who the F cares about anything? Okay. If I’m going to be embarrassed, that’s where I’m going to be embarrassed. But it’s done now. That night it wasn’t embarrassed and I wasn’t humiliated and I left that group. And I said, you guys, this is what humiliation means. Humiliation means.

I did something bad to the group. I walk away from the group. You guys kicked me out. My head is hung. I’m walking in shame. You guys are egging me and I’m acknowledging it. No, I’m not acknowledging what I’m doing is bad for the group. And you guys will find out later that what I’m doing isn’t bad for the group. What you guys are doing is bad for the group. I’m not humiliated. And so I left like that. And I will make those guys pay. The ones who did that to me, I’m going to out them later.

joe lee (01:22:21.78)
because they were not acting scientific. All I’m asking for is a discussion, a debate. You say it works and that’s all that matters. I’m saying how it works in medicine and science is critical because if it works via what I think, interferon, then it’s short-lived. And if it’s short-lived, it’s not even a vaccine. And really in medicine, we don’t just give medicine. If it’s acting like a pro-drug.

because the effects work because of the interferon that’s being induced. And we know interferon is antiviral in a million papers. If the COVID mRNA vaccine is working based on this interferon side effect, then it’s not a vaccine, it’s a prodrug. And we don’t give medicines to a patient who doesn’t have the illness because a risk benefit never works out. There’s no benefit when you don’t have the illness. And this is like a prodrug then, and there’s no benefit. Yes.

Ahmad (01:23:13.014)
First turn, first turn no harm.

joe lee (01:23:19.428)
Medicine… people have lost their collective rational critical analytical abilities. They just can’t think anymore. I don’t know when it started but I think it has something to do with the Dems. Group loyalty is always a problem for me. I find over excuse me I’ve gone over and over like group loyalty trumps rational thought.

And obviously, you know, being an immigrant growing up in the US in the 70s, I didn’t have a group, technically have a group. And then my parents saddled me with this cult religion. I mean, and I don’t get mad at me for saying that. They’re pretty close to a cult though. I mean, they had a prophet and everything else, right. And then, and then my parents were on the extreme end of Adventism, extreme right wing of Adventism.

So I grew up not having a single egg in my life until I was like 19. So no, strict vegetarian.

Ahmad (01:24:07.342)
Hmm.

Ahmad (01:24:17.674)
I hope you’ve compensated and eat… I hope you compensated and now eat steak every day.

joe lee (01:24:18.781)
Yeah, so I didn’t really have.

joe lee (01:24:26.03)
I mean In-N-Out burgers are my favorite. I’m probably gonna die of a heart attack because I like burgers so much

Ahmad (01:24:30.05)
The internet burgers, for god’s sake.

Oh, dude, this has been, this has been fascinating. I was trying to find while you’re talking, some of the animal studies that were done to test the COVID vaccine. I remember doing a search, the problem is it’s so hard to find things, they keep hiding things. And I remember looking and it was, the animal studies were like this, they were like, oh, we got some monkeys, we squirted saline with virus.

joe lee (01:24:36.092)
No, I-

Ahmad (01:25:02.702)
particles and God knows what into the nose and into the lungs. We then gave the vaccine. We then measured the antibodies and they were up the vaccine works. And then we killed the animal. And I was like, what the hell was that? There was no bio-distribution study. There was no side effects. There was no toxicity. There was no.

Like, does it make spike protein? How much spike protein does it make? How long does it make for? What is the range? Can you turn it off? Where does it go in your body? What are the effects in the fertility? I mean, none of that. It was just, we squirted it in the lungs. We gave the vaccine. Antibodies went up. Voila, we killed the animals. I need to find the studies, but I’m sure it’s something like that. And it was just like, what is this? What are these?

joe lee (01:25:53.82)
Oh yeah, I mean, Dr. Emily Erbelding sent me a lot of those studies. She said, no, Dr. Lee, look at our data. It looks good. I’m like, science is about, science starts with the hypotheses. If you, if I destroy your hypotheses, you have to form another hypotheses and resubmit a study. That’s the way it works. And of course they don’t want to do that.

Ahmad (01:26:19.779)
Am I right though that that’s what they were doing with the vaccines in these animals? Am I right?

joe lee (01:26:27.272)
We need super shoddy research. Super shoddy. You know, you know when you’re saying about squirting saline into the lungs, that’s called BAL right? Bronchial alveolar lavage. I always tell people, I always tell people this. Okay, so let’s say I put a gram of sugar on the table. Please, can you tell me the concentration? You can’t? Why not? Because there’s no liquid.

Ahmad (01:26:31.679)
It was, wasn’t it?

Ahmad (01:26:39.818)
Yeah, that’s it.

joe lee (01:26:58.084)
If you inject saline into the lung and you swivel around and try to catch all the antibodies that are in there and you pull it out, depending on what how much saline you injected, you’re going to get a completely different concentration aren’t you? What amazes me about how stupid their science is, the blood concentrations of antibodies almost always match the lung concentration.

You can’t talk to me about a lung concentration of antibody when the lung is dry.

Oh, you can always add more or less saline. Oh, our data doesn’t look the same as a blood concentration. We’ve got to dry it a little bit. Or we’ve got to add more saline. Yeah, that’s how you’re going to make it match? I think there’s just way too much fraud and lying and cheating in this kind of vaccine research. Because tell me, and I had a huge debate on this.

with the New England Journal of Medicine chief editor, you know, two and a half, three years ago, I kept saying, the antibody can’t get into the lung. You know, he responded with me, we have a long email trail. I don’t remember his name. He said, well, I just looked it up. And I found a lot of papers on BAL and antibodies in the lung. And I said, I just explained to you.

You’re saying there’s gold on the table. I’m saying, how did the gold get there? You’re saying, well, I still found gold on the table. I’m like, how did it get there? Well, I have it on the table. How did it get there? You’re avoiding the question, how did it get there? No, I found it. How did it get there? We went through this back and forth. So I said, okay, we can found 100 papers showing BAL.

joe lee (01:28:51.248)
I will find you 10,000 references on the blood-lung barrier. Then do I win? Because I have more papers showing that the lung barrier is quite impermeable. This is the chief… I think his name was Ruben. This is the chief editor of the New England Journal of Medicine.

No, I’m never going to be able to publish anything in my life because everyone’s going to hate me because I went after all the editors, right? But who else am I going to go after? I’m going to have to go after the leaders, right? Because that is where the buck stops everywhere, right?

Ahmad (01:29:24.258)
Yeah. Dude, you know what? This is just one massive shit show. I’ve also noticed there’s just so much information overload, conflicting evidence, noise, white noise, smoke screen. I just don’t know what the frack is going on. And one of the things I just always fall back on is medical ethics, because you can’t fracking argue against it. I mean, I’ll…

joe lee (01:29:30.865)
It is.

Ahmad (01:29:53.942)
Like, very, very quickly, I’ll say to you, the no virus people give a very good argument about no such thing as viruses. I can see the attraction there. It gives me a headache, the idea that there’s no viruses, because I’ve been sick and I’ve had things and I just have to believe that there’s viruses. But I’m open to the idea that there might not be, who knows, man, we don’t know fucking anything. But the one thing is medical ethics, the way they rammed these…

experimental shots down our throats with mandates and lockdowns and then incentivizing it, then punishing us, then forcing us to take them and then passports and all that kind of… That was wrong, man. That’s wrong. I mean, can you imagine as a surgeon saying, hey, you, you off, get off the street, come into my clinic. And I walk in and go, what’s up? And you go, listen, there’s something going out, out there.

joe lee (01:30:22.703)
Absolutely.

Ahmad (01:30:49.25)
in the streets is causing people to go blind. And to save your granny going blind, you need to have this operation. And then they go, what? You go, yeah, if you don’t have this operation, you can make your granny blind. And you’re like, okay, so Dr. Lee, is this operation safe? And you’re like, yeah, very safe. And I’ve only done like two or three before, not 70,000, maybe two or three in my garage. And I’m like,

You know, are there any long-term side effects? No, no safe and effective. Oh gosh, I don’t know about that. And then, um, anything else I need to know? Yeah. You need to come back in two months time and have the surgery repeated. Repeated? Yeah. If you don’t, you’re a granny killer. You’re going to make her blind. I’m like, what is going on Dr. Lee? Yeah. And then you have to have it every year. And then I’m like, okay, anything else Dr. Lee?

joe lee (01:31:37.262)
every year.

Ahmad (01:31:43.346)
Yeah, I mean, ultimately it’s your choice, Ahmed, but if you don’t decide to have it, you know, you won’t be able to work. What? Seriously, Dr. Lee? Yeah, and you’re not allowed to leave the state, go on a plane, go to the pub. All your friends are going to hate you and think you’re a killer and going to make them go blind. You know, you need to do this for the greater good. Wow. Anything else? No, no. I mean, it’s totally up to you though. You know, I mean, there’s no pressure.

No pressure, you know, just take your time. Just make sure you do it tomorrow. If not, we’re gonna call the police and lock you up. I mean, what the frack, man? I mean, that’s what it was like, wasn’t it?

joe lee (01:32:23.848)
Yeah, I mean, I didn’t get vaccinated, so I couldn’t go to a restaurant. I couldn’t fly anywhere. I just, see, with the information I had, I just knew how stupid the whole world was, right? So what I tell people is this. If I think that there’s some amazing medication, and I tell my neighbor, oh, it’s an amazing medication, and I use it on all my kids, and he uses it on his kid, and his kid has a really horrible problem and becomes crippled, he’ll be really mad at me. But he’s not gonna kill me.

Ahmad (01:32:24.578)
It was just insane.

joe lee (01:32:53.868)
because I didn’t force it. But let’s say I held down a son and rammed it down his mouth and then his son became a cripple. He’s gonna hunt me down to the ends of the earth and destroy me and end my life. So that’s why smart people don’t force their will on other people to the point of violating the boundary. And is this something like, where are all the lawyers? Where are all the lawyers? I mean.

Then you go to law school. Isn’t law about protecting our freedoms and having a civilized society so we don’t have to go to the point where we chase somebody else down and kill them? Where were all the lawyers here? I just, I’m not very happy with them. And I’m not happy with cardiologists either. You’re an Where are all the cardiologists?

Ahmad (01:33:40.238)
Dude, dude we’re fracking, we’re fracking lost the plot.

Ahmad (01:33:49.654)
Dude, where are all the medical ethics professors? I mean, the thing I couldn’t believe is, dude, we had medical ethics people, we had lecturers in medical ethics and all that saying, the right thing to do is take the shot and mandate it. What the fuck? 280,000 doctors in the UK. Where were the doctors? A private?

joe lee (01:33:49.996)
Because you know, every cardiologist.

joe lee (01:33:54.79)
Oh my god, I went after him.

Ahmad (01:34:15.446)
Foot and ankle orthopedic surgeon went on TV to say mandates are wrong? Where the frack were everyone else? Where were all the professors and the medical people and the regulatory affairs and the licensing boards saying we are the defenders of medical ethics? This is wrong. Nothing, do you know what it was like? Tumbleweed dude, it was like this.

joe lee (01:34:38.364)
You know, I went after Arthur Kaplan. He’s a world famous bioethicist. I thought, okay, this guy’s gonna help me. I also have to find him, right? He was so stupid. Because you know, normally this is the way it works. If I inform people of all this information, they get afraid. They don’t want to respond to me because if they reply to me, that’s acknowledgement that they got the information. So they wanna pretend I never got it. But if you respond, that’s proof you got it.

Arthur Kappa kept responding to me and saying, stop sending me information. He finally got to the point where he says, I’m gonna call campus security on you. I’m like, go do it. I’m trying to reach the NYPD anyways. This is Arthur Kappa, Kappa’s world famous rival ethicist. And I’m like, I nonstop made fun of him. I’m like, you guys are so great at hypotheticals. You can always save the one fat man and kill the hundred people in a trolley. But when it comes to a real life situation, you guys are worthless.

Worthless.

Ahmad (01:35:38.062)
Dude, dude, I’ll give you another example without naming names, but there’s someone very famous, a Canadian guy, right? And he’s going around telling people, look, I’m anti-woke and we have to stand up to totalitarianism. But then COVID came along and he went very quiet. And then he said, ah, just God damn, take the shot. I mean, that’s what he’s famous for. Just take the shot, take the damn shot. That’s it. Take the damn shot.

And now he’s back surfacing back up again. And it’s like, where were you during COVID? And there was a big conference recently, the alternative to the WEF, and they talked a load of shit. We had the freedom movement, we need to fight back. Guess what they never talked about? They never talked about how wrong lockdowns were. They never talked about how wrong mandates were. They never talked about how it was awful how the Canadian truckers were treated. They weren’t told how…

joe lee (01:36:37.513)
Right.

Ahmad (01:36:37.67)
awful it was that soldiers and pilots were forced to take the shots and, you know, teachers and doctors and nurses were forced to take the shots and people were forced to take it to travel and visit their family. How, how, you know, we were all mandated and people had to take either an experimental drug or lose their job. They never talked about that. They never talked about the vaccine mRNA jab harms that we’re seeing now. Never talked about any of these, these things. So, you know, all these people in the so-called freedom movement,

I call them out for bullshit. Bullshit. Because you know when it really comes to talking about important things, it’s this.

Ahmad (01:37:20.042)
Nothing. Nothing!

joe lee (01:37:22.517)
And they only talk when there’s no risk to themselves. That’s pointless. You have to talk when it’s happening.

Ahmad (01:37:30.922)
Yeah. Yeah, dude. And I, you know, I know. I know I’m. I’m not saying anything. I know I’m over the target because, you know what? Look at what’s happened to me. I fracking lost my career, my 25 year surgical career gone, fracking gone. For what? No patient. There’s no patient involved. There is no patient harm, no patient complication, nothing.

joe lee (01:37:36.942)
Are his initials JP?

Ahmad (01:38:00.354)
There is no person that has complained about me that I know of. It’s anonymous complaints, medical directors, hospital management, licensing boards.

Ahmad (01:38:15.31)
They’re clearly not happy with what I’m saying. And dude, I don’t know about you, but that terrifies me because we’re meant to be living in the West, you know? Democracy. You know, look at us, two brown immigrant children, you know, born out of cults, challenging the status quo. Thankfully, you got lots of hair and are still able to practice, whereas I’m a bald git and I’m now unemployed.

I mean, frack. What the frack, man? But anyway, look, I get to speak to wonderful people like you and I’ve got, I’m building an amazing community of people out there. I have to admit, really amazing people who, you know, are now becoming my friends and, you know, I just love them. People like you, you know, you signed up, you became a subscriber, God bless you, man. And, you know, there’s…

joe lee (01:39:10.792)
Oh, I guess I can do it.

Ahmad (01:39:13.53)
No, I’m just saying like, you know, look, while we were talking, Mike, Mikael, Michael, Michael Elliott from the US, don’t know who you are, man. Small business owner, pilot, father, grandfather, and amateur scientist, science geek. Michael, thanks for subscribing. And Pascal Blomann, you’re from Europe. Pascal Blomann, I don’t know who you are. Thanks, man.

There’s someone from the UK, Katie Wow Katie. I don’t know who you are, but thank you. These were some recent people who subscribed to me. I don’t know who you guys are, but thanks man for supporting me. I don’t know what I’m gonna do now. But anyway, listen, my signature question, my lovely friend, is you’re on your deathbed, you’ve lived a long life and in 150 at least, you’re surrounded by all your lovely children and beautiful wife.

before you die and pass on and meet your Maker. And you know, your Maker is going to turn around to you and say, why did you leave the sacred cult that I was, you know, I gave you the privilege of being born into, you damn fool. No, I’m just joking. But the funny thing is being brought up in my cult, we were always told the same thing. We were the special chosen ones. You know what? Bullshit. We’re all special chosen ones. We’re all God’s children.

joe lee (01:40:38.059)
Yeah, completely.

Ahmad (01:40:38.442)
and this idea that certain people are the special chosen one. Bullshit, we’re all God’s children. But anyway, so you’re about to meet your maker, your maker’s forgiven you for leaving the cult. You know, what pieces of advice, what wisdom would you impart on your loved ones before you pass on?

joe lee (01:41:02.364)
Wow. How much time do I get? Yeah, because I, you know, I think more about the future than most people, right? So I came up with two things that I think people need to fight for. One, powerful leaders are always evil.

Ahmad (01:41:03.67)
And that was a deep sigh. I heard that, I heard that deep sigh.

joe lee (01:41:24.792)
America is great because we made our president lose our leaders separated powers, right? So powerful leaders are always evil. That’s one. Two, complex solutions for humans are never good. And you know, like the vaccine is pretty complicated. You got to go through this whole thing to make it. And you got to inject it. You got to keep injecting it. That’s complicated. You know, if there’s a miracle drug…

and everyone needs it to survive. It’s more than a miracle drug. It’s an essential miracle drug. Let’s say one company makes it and it’s freaking complicated and a terrorist blows it up. Now no one on earth can get the miracle drug. You have a village of 10,000 and you just give them food, water, sunlight and they will just keep going for millions of years if we’re lucky.

But you make humanity dependent on a complex solution. Food isn’t complex, water’s not complex, sunlight’s not complex, shelter over our roof has not complex. Complex solutions are not good for humans. Not good for humans. Well, they’re gonna happen. Whether I tell them not to or do it or not to, they’ll do it.

Ahmad (01:42:40.502)
Don’t forget sex, they need to have sex and procreate. Sex is important. Dude, I don’t know about you, but one of the problems I had with the cult was, man, they were just totally like anti-sex. Like, you know, the leadership can have the sex, but all the plebs were not allowed to talk about sex or have sex. What the fuck frag is that all about? Sex is great, man, as long as it’s with a consensual.

joe lee (01:43:03.333)
Um, that’s just a game. That’s just a game to get more sex for themselves, usually.

Ahmad (01:43:07.992)
Yeah

No, dude, yeah, that’s good advice. I agree. Keep it simple, stupid. Kiss. Keep it simple, stupid, you know? Like, don’t overcomplicate it. Just, and you know, I don’t know about you, but you know, there’s some people out there, when they talk, they talk really slowly with hushed tones to make it look like they’re really smart. When they’re dumb as shit.

joe lee (01:43:39.828)
Right.

Ahmad (01:43:40.266)
You know, I can’t stand that. Just I cannot stand. And some people fall for it. Some people think if you just go, hi, my name is.

joe lee (01:43:43.032)
Yeah.

Ahmad (01:43:53.87)
It’s gonna make me sound really intelligent. I just think you sound like an idiot. You know, it’s just, keep it simple. Keep it simple. Don’t overcomplicate anything. All right, my friend. Listen, last words to you. Last words to you before we move on. Everyone listening, this was Dr. Lee in America. All the links will be on the website. Thank you for listening.

joe lee (01:44:00.708)
Absolutely. I completely agree.

Absolutely.

joe lee (01:44:08.348)
Yes, I think you’re on the right path.

Ahmad (01:44:24.286)
Lee, um, Joe, over to you. Last words, my friend.

joe lee (01:44:30.004)
I wish you the best. I think you’re on a great path and I think you will be rewarded later.

Ahmad (01:44:38.958)
Thanks. Hopefully not like after I’m dead. All right, everybody. Bye bye.